Help me define my fav JAV genre.

[spiattalo]

Hello everyone,

My apologies if this is not the right section, but I don't know what else to research.

There is a specific bracket of Japanese porn that I like, which I know is quite common, but I always have a hard time finding what I am looking for efficiently.

I'm talking about girls who are reluctant to sex but give in to the man or men, because they look like it can't be helped. Some example as follow:

http://xhamster.com/movies/3682737/ruri_saijo.html
http://www.nuvid.com/video/1984505/big-tit-asian-teen-sucks
http://www.pornoxo.com/videos/1121601/hitomi-tanaka-leopard-dress.html
http://xhamster.com/movies/3824557/airu_oshima_schoolgirl_bullied.html

The tags that come to my mind while searching are usually r***, molester (chikan), submissive, groped etc.
The thing is I don't think any of those fully represent the niche, and they all have their own category:
- r*** involves non-consenting sex, while in this case the woman is only reluctant and eventually gives in and does feel pleasure;
- molesters usually involve some sort of public setting, but it's the one that usually gives me more results;
- submissive usually leads to BDSM and stuff like that, not to mention a submissive may imply enjoyment while in my case they try to fight it;
- groping, I won't deny that it's what turns me on here, is again consenting more often than not;

So once again, I mean those scenes in which the girl doesn't seduce or get seduced, but gets his/their hands on her and on sketches a fight. I know there are plenty of these scenes in the JAV industry, anyone know how to best identify them?

 

[needs more loli]

I'm not sure if there is a term for this in JAV, but in the hentai/doujin world I believe this is called 'mind break'.

 

[jugulear]

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Don't know nothin' about the hentai/doujin world, but ... "mind break"? I like it.

Looked at your profile page, Splattalo, as I was hoping to get a bead on your moniker (let's see... porn. Splat. Something goes splat, but what? What could it be? What could possibly go splat, I dun' unnerstan', I dun' unnerstan'...), and noticed you are literally a New Member. Welcome.

Let me commend you for managing to put the difficult concepts involved into comprehensible words; there is a lot of overlap involved in these different areas; for example, what you are looking for is not exactly consensual, although in time the "victim" may begin welcoming her sexual abuse. It is all "r***," really. Not r*** by brute force necessarily, but "persuasive" r***, where the lady gives in out of hopelessness, despair, insecurity, or other such reason.

There is no magic search word I am aware of.

I'm interested in this theme myself, and there is a lot of JAV that fits in... but does not exactly fit in. It's tough to get the kind that pushes one's subjective buttons.

A word from the last of your examples hit me, and that word was "bullied." I knew I was on the same page as what you were describing, because that word, or a variation of "bully," was exactly what I have used at times, in my searches. (I even Google-translated bully, and once searched through DMM to see whether I may be led to some nuggets.)

Here's the kind of thing that happens when one goes on the hunt, hoping to land that "perfect" JAV. Let's start off with your "bullied" example that is on xHamster. I thought, say, that movie might be up my alley, and I was pleased to notice the stolen property was not uploaded as an excerpt, but as the entire thing.

Luckily, a clue was provided as to which movie it may be, and when I zeroed in on my favorite English-language JAV site's page for the actress -- which happened to be http://www.asianscreens.com/airu_ohshima2.asp?zoom_highlightsub="Airu+Ohshima" -- it didn't take long for me to uncover which movie the one you pointed to may be. (DVDES 546 turned out to be the sought-out smut.)

Now while I'm on that very page, I'm lookin' at these other titles:

Totally Obedient Busty Housekeeper - He Takes Advantage of Her Weakness and Shames Her, Enjoying Her Ripe Titties to His Heart's Content... [HAVD 834]

Submitted Tale of a Beautiful Mother Disciplined By Her Sons [YSN 327]

Father-in-Law Who Secretly Laid His Hands On His Son's Young and Innocent Big-Boobed Wife [HBAD 200]

Busty Employee Who Was Sold On the Side By Her Boss [XKK 054]

Busty Student Forced to Pay Her Father's Debt With Her Body [SEV 505]

Every single one explores the theme of sex not initially being the idea of the reluctant miss. Some may turn out to offer the idea of the lady eventually liking her abuse.

But we won't know for sure until we sample the goods. That's why we have to deal with a lot of losers.

From the same page there is this one, which provides potential from the title:

Mama's Big Breasts Belong to Me [OKSN 097]

But I can see from the screen shots this particular one may be out of the running, because the big-breasted mama in question appears totally into the sinful activity on display. (Deceptive JAV titling has often been the death of me.)

From my example of these titles from just one page, we can get the idea that the theme you are looking for is in a lot of JAV genres, if genre is the correct word, here; we've got the father-in-law genre. We've got the boss-employee genre. We've got the debt repayment genre. The housekeeper genre. The stepmother slave genre. Think of almost any genre, and you will find an element of reluctance leading, sometimes, to possible enjoyment.

Of course you are well aware of this ubiquitousness, having written, as you have, that what you are looking for is "quite common." But there are no shortcuts that I'm aware of, it's all going to boil down to case-by-case experimentation. Fortunately, you can open up any JAV listing, and you will not find any shortage of titles that promise to be a candidate, the kind may lead to a certain splattalooing... OHHH! (I get it, now.)


.

 

[needs more loli]

Damn... and I thought my posts were long lol

Anyway, here's some 'mind break' hentai doujinshi translated in English. Most doujins of this genre follow your description:

...girls who are reluctant to sex but give in to the man or men, because they look like it can't be helped...

Quite frankly, its one of my favorite genres.

 

[spiattalo]

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Don't know nothin' about the hentai/doujin world, but ... "mind break"? I like it.
.

Glad to see I'm not the only one with this fetish and the same difficulty in pinning it down to words; and I do like a detailed post, thank you for that. I admit I did think of the word "bullied" thanks to that video but it just slipped my mind when I was typing and I never tried a search with that term. Will do from now on.

As you may have gathered I'm a very casual JAV researcher, so any other tips you may have will be much appreciated. And thanks for welcoming me (and no, "spiattalo" is a nonsense word I came up with in my teenage years, no meaning whatsoever haha).

Damn... and I thought my posts were long lol

Anyway, here's some 'mind break' hentai doujinshi translated in English. Most doujins of this genre follow your description:

Quite frankly, its one of my favorite genres.

You know, doujins haven't been my thing in a while now, but now that you mentioned it I do see the similarities. I have encountered the term many times on e-hentai.org (my go-to hentai site) but never in JAVs. Will need some researching, thanks for the input.

 

[CodeGeek]

[...]
http://xhamster.com/movies/3682737/ruri_saijo.html
http://www.nuvid.com/video/1984505/big-tit-asian-teen-sucks
http://www.pornoxo.com/videos/1121601/hitomi-tanaka-leopard-dress.html
http://xhamster.com/movies/3824557/airu_oshima_schoolgirl_bullied.html
[...]

Also it is a little bit off-topic: Does someone know the movie codes for these?
The woman in the 2nd movie is Shiori Tsukada.

 

[ding73ding]

IMHO, what you are talking about isn't a particular specific "genre" because of, I emphasize it's only my hypothesis, it's simply how things are in everyday life in Japan.

It's comparable to males in many culture would do everything they can to cover up a lost fight. Take the typical Japanese boy/man, if he somehow get into a fight, no matter the right vs. wrong, no mater if it's fair or not (body size, age, or even 5-on-1) if he lose the fight he would try to hide it from everyone, especially his dad, teacher etc, and even his friends.

It's the same for Japanese women when it comes to unwanted sex. Japanese girls/women are not supposed to report or complain or even express her pain during or after what would in some other countries be classified as r***. A woman is still chaste and pure no matter she's been r***ing, as long as she can keep it secret. No one cares that she was r***ing by a senior schoolmate or boss at work or molested on the train or by a doctor as long as it's not public.

Which is also why "proper" Japanese women wouldn't work after she got married. At work, anything might happen and she's powerless to stop or avoid these situations and the husband has no control or even knowledge of the problems.

It all falls under the particular Japanese sexual mores. IMHO, it's related to Survey finds the prefecture in Japan where women most likely to have one-night stands and to 1 in 4 Japanese women have experience working as hostess. Sex, consensual or not, romantic or not, paid or not, is ok as long as it's private and unknown.

 

[ding73ding]

Hmm I'm not much in hentai either. But speaking out of my butt for a minute here...

Perhaps "mind break" means something more hardcore and nasty than spiattalo intended. I think "bullied sex" (let's use that term for now) simply mean the "attacker" somehow caused the "victim" to stop resisting (or simply resisting with less than her full physical capacity) during the attack. After the attack is over, the "victim" is back to her normal self, at least outwardly. She might go home and take a shower, not tell anyone, quietly get an abortion if she was impregnated. It's even possible that the "attack" might result in her accepting the "attacker" as boyfriend or husband, but she should maintain the demeanor of a proper woman/girlfriend/wife. No matter if she accept sex from this "attacker" from now on, it is her "original self" making such choices. For those of you into classic manga, Crying Freeman raping Bugnug (Dark Eyes) and winning her heart in one stroke (or more) is a classic example.

In contrast, after a "mind break", the victim should lose part of her personality/outlook/demeanor etc and become some kind of slave or slut. There's not fear or something that stop her resisting, but her sense that something is wrong or evil is gone. Her "self" was broken. The long-running JAV series "Slave Island" is example.

 

[needs more loli]

You're right. Now that you mention it, 'mind break' is too extreme. I think @spiattalo was just looking for your run-of-the-mill molestation or r***.

 

[jugulear]

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Ouch! I was doing a bit of research for pal Codegeek, and I see Ding73ding has contributed his usual thoughtful post, putting us all to shame, because all we were interested in was sleaze, and D73D went all intellectually sociological on us. (If I may add, that shame of r*** is naturally not just a Japanese phenomenon, although it may be a little more pronounced in the land of Hara-kiri; lots of American women don't report their terrible sexual victimizations either.)

(Man, things sure move fast around here. Finally ready to post, and noticed D73D has put up yet another message in the interim, followed by a reply by Needs More Loli. All I can say is... what's wrong with "mind break," anyhoo?)

Splattalo, make the best of hooking up here by speaking up often! You have a great voice.

Off I go now to off-topic land, con su permiso(s).

Hi, Codegeek! If I were, say, Electromog, I would have picked off the remaining three IDs, but at least I got two.

First one is "Big Tits Loving Shota Erotic Mischief," [GG 268]. (Confirmation)

I like Ruri Saijoh, and you most likely do as well, since she has a pair of you-know-whats; while I was clicking through her output, I noticed a few of her movies you might like, given what I know about your tastes:

Friend's Mother [VEC 071] (with the Un-Juvenile Delinquent tying up the son)
In Love With the Father-in-Law Even More Than With the Husband... [JUX 092]
Silent Incest - Hey, Your Father is Just in the Next Room... [VENU 376] (with Hefty)
Stepmother Slave [MDYD 753]

Second one would probably be not too difficult to pin down with a little more investment of clicking-around time, given that the star has a red outfit, and the man (my, he is unattractive) wears a distinctive striped shirt. (Assuming the scene was included for the movie's thumbnail representations.)

Third one with Hitomi (Hitomi Tanaka) is I'm Going to Be Done By a Very Busty Lady With Tits Partially Exposed and Whose Outfit Accentuates Her Plump Assets [PPPD 175] (Confirmation, back cover detail.)

Finally, I discovered an actress I like a lot, worthy of the "Stands Out in a Crowd" thread that I began; first thing that came to my mind was that Codegeek would probably like her too, given that she owns quite a pair of you-know-whats.



.

 

[CodeGeek]

[...]
It all falls under the particular Japanese sexual mores. IMHO, it's related to Survey finds the prefecture in Japan where women most likely to have one-night stands and to 1 in 4 Japanese women have experience working as hostess. Sex, consensual or not, romantic or not, paid or not, is ok as long as it's private and unknown.

Thanks, ding73ding. But somehow I can't believe this articles (and the one you mentioned is not the only one about this matter) that so many Japanese women doing such business - working as a hostess or as a JAV actress. Maybe there are women doing that in Japan than in some other countries. But so many... Seems unrealistic. At least that is my humble opinion.

Thanks, jugulear, my friend for taking the effort for naming all of the movies.

 

[EroMura777]

Not sure if the "僕のペットは○○" series from Fitch would fit in your criteria, but it may be worth taking a look at.

By the way, most Fitch models have a nice pair of "you-know-what"s

 

[frakkkertalt]

Don't know if it's the correct word, but I was reminded of the good 'ole word 'blackmail'. Ie, coerced into sex (that she then starts to enjoy)

 

[kermitfrog]

I think one thing that would really be up the topic creator's alley is the 痴漢OK娘 "Chikan/Groper OK girl" series. In these videos, it starts out with a girl who is being groped or harassed in some way and doesn't like it. Eventually, though, out of fear and/or because she's turned on, she gives him the OK and they have sex. There are quite a few of them. Here's dmm's listing of the series:

http://www.dmm.co.jp/mono/dvd/-/list/=/article=series/id=71010/

Also, most of the "Tokyo Hot" series would fall into something similar to this.

 

[spiattalo]

Wow I did not expect so many people to partecipate, sorry if I have been absent but had to bring my laptop to customer service.

Ding73Ding your post is very interesting, I always find fascinating how different cultures deal with sexuality and the sole fact that depicting genitals is forbidden in any way says a lot about Japanese in my opinion. In particular I feel that Japanese porn is a very cultural mark that is unique. I also agree that the term "mind break" is a bit too far from what I intended.
As far as real r***s are concerned, that is a shame most women (and men who get r***ing too, let's not forget that) find very hard to deal with in any culture, unfortunately. From my point of view, as an European, the way Japanese actresses act in JAVs is not realistic at all, else I would not enjoy it. It would be cool to know the opinion of a Japanese member.

EroMura777, thanks for the suggestion but I can't reach that website from my area (Eastern Australia), I need to fix my DNS I guess.

Frakkertalt, blackmail sounds more like a western thing, I don't recall seeing it in any JAV but it may be worth some research. Cheers.

Kermitfrog, Chikan is definitely a category I often look for, but taking it usually place on buses and trains gets a bit repetitive. I'll give your suggestions a look.

Jugulear, you're starting to look like the go-to guy for actress identification, take this as a warning.

 

[EroMura777]

EroMura777, thanks for the suggestion but I can't reach that website from my area (Eastern Australia), I need to fix my DNS I guess.

Try using hola.org for geoblocking issues.

 

[spiattalo]

Try using hola.org for geoblocking issues.

Yep, that worked, thanks. Now I only need to find an alternative for safari.

 

[jugulear]

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(I had only configured my Firefox browser to access DMM, but I just tried adding that "Hola" extension to Chrome, and -- I dunno how it worked, but -- DMM became available. Thanks, EroSmarty777! Others interested in the same idea for DMM may also keep http://unblockdmm.com/ in mind, but Hola appears to save a step.)

I don't know what I would have done without our genius friends here at Akiba-Online whenever I needed to get the lowdown on a JAV or an actress, Splattalo; I'm more like the "Bypass Guy" when it comes to unlocking these mysteries, but you were most kind to say otherwise.

I wanted to mention when I had first read Frakkkertalt's suggestion of "blackmail," I immediately thought... spot on! That, along with the variation of "bully," is another keyword I've used for searches to get the kind of perverted porn I like. (See, Frakkkertalt speaks up very seldom, as I discovered by peeking at his profile, but when he opens his choppers, everyone needs to listen.)

Splattalo was correct as well, however, at least to a point. While a useful search term for non-JAV porn, when it comes to JAV, "Blackmail" is used even less than the times Frakkertalt talts... I mean, talks. When I threw in the word into my favorite English-language JAV site, for example, I only got two results.

When I threw the Google-translated "恐喝" into DMM, I got three pages - better, but hardly that much either. The covers don't look all that promising - HEY! Here's one seeming to be on the ball... the way she's cowering, and backed into a corner, yes, yes...



(Well, of course it WOULD have to be one from 2008, and worse, the kind where absolutely no other reference seems to exist, whatsoever..!)

The point to make here is that while the word may not be common in the descriptions for JAVs, and certainly not the titles, blackmail is a key component for JAV. One of the reasons that attracted me to JAV, more than the other kind of porn.

Just about every other JAV has the old "Hah! I've got (e.g.) a picture of you that you would not want the world to see... now you've got to do what I say!" motif.

I had mentioned the Un-Juvenile Delinquent in a recommended title for Codegeek, above. Another one where the overaged youngster had his way, this time with the lovely Erika Miura, happened to be one more of the endless "Friend's Mother" movies (VEC 046), where blackmail is employed, and her son (played by Nerdy) is forced to watch the sinful sights.

That's just one example, and I don't need to give you any, because you know exactly what I'm talking about. While we are on the topic, I can't resist pointing out one from what I think is called "The Real Video" series, and one of my favorites is KNCS 019, where the beautiful Yui Aikawa is vicimized by two goons, and they videotape her agony to heart's content.

While you may find the word "blackmail" more often in the titles and/or descriptions of Western porn, it is interesting to ponder why this plot element is used so seldom, and when they do attempt the blackmail thing, they can't get it right. (This usually pertains to American porn. The Yanks just don't have the right sensibilities; European western porn fares better, as the Old World better understands the darkness that lies in the hearts of men.)

But even the Europeans screw up. I am aware of one example called (more or less) "Blackmailing Spanish Mother into being his Puta" [Fernando Deira], and most of this short excursion concentrates on the guy hiding near the lady's bedroom .... so we primarily get the boring sex scene the creep uses for his blackmail.

At least the Europeans get it right, sometimes. The Italians, known for their perverted porn, bless their hearts, as one example... there's one from a feature called "The Anatomy Teacher," where the lovely and appropriately innocent-looking Luna Lombardi is victimized by a smug (and greasy ... great casting) student. It's very JAVvy! But why is this kind of scene so rare?

There is a series, the locales being the Czech Republic and especially London, called "Fake Taxi," that sometimes succeeds, although usually stupidly.

But the Americans. Those Americans, they just don't know what they're doing. One featured in porn site ads had Amy Andersson in the shower getting secretly taped by her stepson ("Stepmom's Boobs")... ohhh, boy. It wasn't just the actress' horrifying hooters that made this one a failure. They just don't know what they're doing!

The above was from a mainstream company, Digital Playground. Sometimes the main studios do a good job, as KINK, which occasionally makes use of the blackmail idea. The word was used in an episode of Bound Gang Bangs, "Blackmailed Skylar Price," as one example. But even KINK usually can't get the kinks out of the exploitation of this idea. Often the main studios fall flat, as with BRAZZERS' "Blackmail Seductions," a Big Tits at Work episode featuring Phoenix Marie and Aline. You can almost always count on a disappointment.

(Sometimes they come close. There was a My First Sex Teacher episode with Monique Fuentes & Alec Knight, which was sort of all right... well, even the main studios can't screw up all the time.)

There is a studio focusing on lesbian movies called "Girlfriend Films" that fares a bit better; you can frequently count on Dana DeArmond being up to no good. (I'm guessing because women are mostly behind the porn offered by this company, they stress the "realism" aspect, and are a little more "intelligent." You can count on American porn being retarded otherwise, with women acting aggressively, and other stupidities. I once wrote a piece comparing the U.S. to JAV.)

It's the small operations, the kind that offers "Clips 4 Sale," like (sometimes) the Rachel Steele productions (I recall a very good "Red MILF" episode where a female dean threatened to expel a student, but he and his father changed her mind), that may generally be counted on. For example, there was a Primal Fetish one called, I think, "Alex's Brother Makes Her His Slut Over and Over," with Alex Tanner ... that was quite good (I don't even have the whole thing, just a preview).

Charlee Chase is a fine attraction, and one she was in called "MILF with an Attitude" (she strives to keep her daughter out of porn, making sexual deals with the sleazy porn-maker, to no avail) pushed the right buttons. Another one with Charlee was called, I think, "Blackmail A Hot Milf Into Sucking Off Her Stepson," also featuring Macy Cartel and Cherry Poppins. But even with these "good" ones, they may be on the right track... but they usually don't know how to exploit the idea for what it's worth. (The "clip" variety of porn also has the disadvantage of short running times -- guess that's why they're called "clips" -- and just as we are beginning to get into the action, it's over.)

One reason why American porn is really stupid may have to do with the porn-makers' fear of the country's arbitrary obscenity laws, making them play things safely. I've noticed, for example, how the "step" mother idea is stressed in porn making use of that idea, rather than the blood mother, because I believe displays of incest are disallowed, or at least dangerous. But this excuse goes only so far. It really boils down to, I think: They don't know what they're doing! (And thank the fallen angels of heaven for JAV.)


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[jugulear]

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I couldn't resist checking out the three pages of DMM results that came up for "blackmail," and I took note of how offbeat many were. One was:

Wife MISERY ~ Stalker, Blackmail, and ... r*** [STMI-01]

The moment of shoplifting, would have been taken with the camera to stalker. From that moment, Stalker haunts insistently. Sube also without having to run away, she will become a slave of the stalker ....

The MISERY series had five in all. A similar series was called "The Tailing," and the description for the sixth entry (DTB-06) reads:

Man who is stalker that has been dumped in the woman failed to ... Nampa is ... thoroughly tailing the investigator ... four women our credit bureaus, invade the home of the woman will be given the chance! The other fled are not stalking and blackmail FUCK! !

These plots may not be in keeping with the idea of this thread, given that more aggression seems to be involved; I only felt like pointing them out, because of their potential potency, and also obscurity. The last one discussed was from 2004, and the prior from 2006... it's not unusual for some interesting JAVs to be old and unavailable. (Drat!)

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..

 

[ding73ding]

Let me break apart some of my thoughts otherwise the post gets too long and the points get too lost.

I think spiattlo's original point is way too broad and therefore (nearly) unanswerable. In another thread that I very broadly retrace my humble views of 25 years of watching JAV: it wasn't too long ago when 8 out of 10 JAVs might fit your general description. Every Japanese woman are supposed to act all lady-like and only acknowledge the pleasure in her vagina most unwillingly (therefore demonstrating the awesome prowess of the fucker).

To put it to an extreme, it wasn't too long ago, most of the sexual intercourse (here not making a big difference between real life and JAV) might look like a sex crime to outsiders of certain background/up-bringing.

E.g. a young girl might be absolutely in love with a boy. She wants him to fuck her, she might even want him to marry her. But to secure that she must behave like a "Good Wife" prospect. So she need to maneuver a course of events that he would force himself on her, and she must put up some verbal and physical resistance. Because if she appear willing and eager, she risk losing his faith in her as prospective wife. The whole event might be orchestrated by her, but she must look like a helpless victim. She must make him the SOLE actor in the entire intercourse, so he feels like a "real man" and "responsible" for all the consequences.

If I'm not too mistaken, this pattern is persuasive in old Japanese literature, probably originating from the rise of samurai culture.

This is not to say Japanese girls/women are always like this, and that all r***s are these fake kind, I am just saying this is one scenario that does happen and in generally the mind game might be quite contorted. To misquote Anakin Skywalker, it's fine line between forced entry and aggressive negociation.