Spontaneous vs Directed

[asianbooblover]

I have always wondered, in JAV sex scenes how much of the action is spontaneous vs directed by the director. In other words, are they given direction to follow scene by scene, or just a basic outline and let them take it from there. Also, I would imagine there is a time limit to each scene that is followed by someone on the set-perhaps a production assistant. I know the basic outline of series like "r***ing in front of husband", and "forced to cum numerous times by my son's friends", certainly seem well scripted- you just fill in the actresse's name and the action is predictable. But what about the rest? If anyone has some thoughts. I would appreciate them.

 

[StageNinja47]

I don't know. But I also wonder about this.

 

[jugulear]

.
Hi, Asianbooblover; you started out by asking about direction of sex scenes, and then moved on to scripted scene direction, as with the "r***ing in Front of Husband" genre (if we may call that a genre).

If it's sex scene direction, that would depend on the director and style of movie. I'm sure there are times when the director would allow free rein ("Have fun, kids! Do whatever you'd like"), but most of the time, your "outline" suspicion would need to come into play. While the regimen can't be strict, I'm sure a director would require a sex scene "build up" and the actors would be instructed on what they would need to do. First, for example, lady gives a blowjob. Next, missionary. Then, doggie, then, cowgirl, etcetera... finished by the requisite "Put-dick-in-mouth" after the cumshot. If one has seen enough JAV, even the sex scenes can sometimes appear to be follow-the-numbers, with few surprises.

A movie is shoot-and-stop, shoot-and-stop (instead of one continuous take, as with Alfred Hitchcock's ROPE; although we are also familiar with the "hidden camera" type of JAV where one uninterrupted angle can go on for a long time... yet even in that type of movie, there are always breaks), so there is much room to maneuver; if a sex scene is hot, no doubt the director would suggest, after the next momentary break, Let's try the same sexual position from this camera angle!

As far as the scripted scene direction, as with "r***ing in Front of Husband," no doubt it would be more regimented. There is a script to follow, and these pornos are shot as any regular type of movie. Now the question is, because porn actors are not always real actors, how much are they required to stick with the written lines? We know as English-speakers, let's say with American porn, that even with "dramatic story" porn, there is a lot of leeway. More often than not, the actors are told of the nature of the scene, and we can tell what is performed has been improvised. This is to encourage that genuine feel; when non-actors are asked to stick to scripted lines, there's always a danger of the scene coming across as stilted... as we have seen often in 1970s American "real movie" porn. (Most porn from those days were "real movies," in other words, with hardcore sex in between.) That period, in fact, is why porn actors have gotten their reputation as being laughable actors. (Obviously; there is a higher consideration that takes place with porn casting, taking priority over acting ability.)

This procedure describing U.S. story porn is undoubtedly the way "story" JAVs are shot, even if we don't understand the language. (Although on the surface, I'm often impressed with the way JAV actresses handle their lines. In contrast, when I watch Western porn, I usually turn the audio off. One could almost always count on the American actresses ad-libbing with remarks that don't follow their character, ruining the illusion of the set-up.) I'm sure there are cases where directors can rely on especially talented JAV actresses to recite their lines, as written. (As any other "real" actress would.)

(Actually, I usually watch JAV with the audio off, as well. I can't stand listening to those little-girl squeals.)

The other type of JAV is gonzo porn, as with, for example, the "Nampa" movies. As with their U.S. counterpart (let's say, "Bangbus"), the acting is a lot more free-for-all. Yet while improvisation is the rule for these types of movies, there is always an outline to follow.

(Disclaimer: I'm not a porn-maker. What I've described just seems like common sense.)

.

 

[Supmop]

I have always wondered, in JAV sex scenes how much of the action is spontaneous vs directed by the director. In other words, are they given direction to follow scene by scene, or just a basic outline and let them take it from there. Also, I would imagine there is a time limit to each scene that is followed by someone on the set-perhaps a production assistant. I know the basic outline of series like "r***ing in front of husband", and "forced to cum numerous times by my son's friends", certainly seem well scripted- you just fill in the actresse's name and the action is predictable. But what about the rest? If anyone has some thoughts. I would appreciate them.

I don't know how much, but from background scenes I'm sure most of the actions are scripted and staged, the performers are doing what they have been told to, they made preparations and practice the scene before the real shot (you can watch it from SOD cinderella series, and Chisato Shouda interview)

and in some orgy videos I noticed they look to some point (mabe the director) and change positions, its clearly someone has give instructions to the performers there

so I think 99% are scripted

 

[darksider59]

and in some orgy videos I noticed they look to some point (mabe the director) and change positions, its clearly someone has give instructions to the performers there

I noticed that too. Yesterday, I looked at ARM-296 to see how this serie is and I saw Kohaku looking at the director.

 

[Supmop]

I noticed that too. Yesterday, I looked at ARM-296 to see how this serie is and I saw Kohaku looking at the director.

yup I believe there us a director or other people who give command to the performers : when to change position, swap partner, and what style they must perform

and I don't find it in JAV yet, but in american porn I have seen in the interviews (usually in the opening, before the sex start) the girl has been asked some questions like when and how they lost their virginity, I noticed the girls answered based on the code from the director or cameraman

 

[ding73ding]

I think it's pretty clear that during the video shooting, it's mostly shoot-and-stop mode as @jugulear said, the typical pacing is 2-3 sex scenes (typical 40 minutes each) being successfully shot per a full day of work. I guestimate that it works out to more than 2 full hours of "sex" needed to film enough good footage for 30+ minutes of the final vid. Say the simple but crucial moment of ejaculation, it might take the crew 2-3 tries to get the camera, the lights, everything in the right place from the moment the male actor pull his penis out of the vagina, (off-screen pauses and reposition necessary equipment, test shoot, maybe another pause) shift his body to her upper body, to ejaculate on to her face or chest. So what seems like a continuous sex act, almost-orgasm, quickly pull out, shift body, cum on her face, may in fact be a 5+ minutes procedure.

Of course there are many vids that make it a point to use long continuous shots, either as a mark of authenticity or just plain due to budget concern (shoot a full length vid within 3 hours).

And of course in an orgy vid which is by definition more complicated, the need to micromanagement (and lots of interruptions) is much higher.

One hint that much more real time is needed to shoot a 120 minutes final product is the outdoor genre, too often the critical second half of an outdoor vid happens in during and after sunset causing really lousy lighting. The main idea of outdoor sex is (1) public sex is risque, (2) sex in the sun, both purposes are defeated by darkness, I think the studio and directors know that but it just take that long that the whole vid can't be filmed within the daylight hours (which is pretty long in summer in Japan).

As for the many long running series you mentioned (I want to add just one a bit of my fav: My Girlfriend's Busty Sister/Mother Creampie OK Seduction), well what more you expect to hear? What you see is what you get, everything from dialog and mannerism, costume, specific sex acts and packing, even the cover art is super consistent. Like you said, just drop in each idol's face and name, perfectly predictable. Not just the content of the vid is predictable, it's even predictable which idols will eventually perform in each classic formula series (based on her contract status with studios owning which series).

 

[gateway57]

I think it's pretty clear that during the video shooting, it's mostly shoot-and-stop mode as @jugulear said, the typical pacing is 2-3 sex scenes (typical 40 minutes each) being successfully shot per a full day of work. I guestimate that it works out to more than 2 full hours of "sex" needed to film enough good footage for 30+ minutes of the final vid. Say the simple but crucial moment of ejaculation, it might take the crew 2-3 tries to get the camera, the lights, everything in the right place from the moment the male actor pull his penis out of the vagina, (off-screen pauses and reposition necessary equipment, test shoot, maybe another pause) shift his body to her upper body, to ejaculate on to her face or chest. So what seems like a continuous sex act, almost-orgasm, quickly pull out, shift body, cum on her face, may in fact be a 5+ minutes procedure.

Of course there are many vids that make it a point to use long continuous shots, either as a mark of authenticity or just plain due to budget concern (shoot a full length vid within 3 hours).

And of course in an orgy vid which is by definition more complicated, the need to micromanagement (and lots of interruptions) is much higher.

One hint that much more real time is needed to shoot a 120 minutes final product is the outdoor genre, too often the critical second half of an outdoor vid happens in during and after sunset causing really lousy lighting. The main idea of outdoor sex is (1) public sex is risque, (2) sex in the sun, both purposes are defeated by darkness, I think the studio and directors know that but it just take that long that the whole vid can't be filmed within the daylight hours (which is pretty long in summer in Japan).

As for the many long running series you mentioned (I want to add just one a bit of my fav: My Girlfriend's Busty Sister/Mother Creampie OK Seduction), well what more you expect to hear? What you see is what you get, everything from dialog and mannerism, costume, specific sex acts and packing, even the cover art is super consistent. Like you said, just drop in each idol's face and name, perfectly predictable. Not just the content of the vid is predictable, it's even predictable which idols will eventually perform in each classic formula series (based on her contract status with studios owning which series).

Good post. There's not a lot of behind the scenes stuff available for JAV so I may be making a stretch here in comparing it to Western porn. However, there is a lot of BTS for Western porn and if it's at all similar it may take as much as 2 hours to shoot a 30 minute scene. Breaks, changing positions, waiting for the dude to get hard again, director instructions, and on and on. To be quite frank, none of it seems very spontaneous if you watch the sausage being made so to speak.

 

[darksider59]

yup I believe there us a director or other people who give command to the performers : when to change position, swap partner, and what style they must perform

and I don't find it in JAV yet, but in american porn I have seen in the interviews (usually in the opening, before the sex start) the girl has been asked some questions like when and how they lost their virginity, I noticed the girls answered based on the code from the director or cameraman

In JAV, I've seen it. I think it was in MUNJ-00, Aki Sasaki talks about her "husband" before the guy asks questions about her doing JAV movies. It's often in milf movies. But maybe you are talking about the "behind the scene" interview ? For JAV, what I've seen is shot as a part of the movie I guess, so part of the "story".

 

[gateway57]

In JAV, I've seen it. I think it was in MUNJ-00, Aki Sasaki talks about her "husband" before the guy asks questions about her doing JAV movies. It's often in milf movies. But maybe you are talking about the "behind the scene" interview ? For JAV, what I've seen is shot as a part of the movie I guess, so part of the "story".

I just wish there was more BTS in JAV. I find it extremely interesting but it also kind of de-eroticizes (is that even a word?) the whole process.

 

[Supmop]

Good post. There's not a lot of behind the scenes stuff available for JAV so I may be making a stretch here in comparing it to Western porn. However, there is a lot of BTS for Western porn and if it's at all similar it may take as much as 2 hours to shoot a 30 minute scene. Breaks, changing positions, waiting for the dude to get hard again, director instructions, and on and on. To be quite frank, none of it seems very spontaneous if you watch the sausage being made so to speak.

what I learned is most western porn made the scene look like last longer, sometimes I noticed they repeated the same action

 

[Supmop]

In JAV, I've seen it. I think it was in MUNJ-00, Aki Sasaki talks about her "husband" before the guy asks questions about her doing JAV movies. It's often in milf movies. But maybe you are talking about the "behind the scene" interview ? For JAV, what I've seen is shot as a part of the movie I guess, so part of the "story".

not only behind the scene interview but I mean in the video too, the part to getting know more of the girl, the casual questions for example : where do you from, whats your hobby, her favorite style, her wildest fantasy, ecc

yes part of the movie, part of the"story"

after the girl told what her favorite style is, and the next scene is show her performing her favorite style

 

[asianbooblover]

Thanks to all-some really intelligent opinions, and the usual erudite reply from
jugulear

 

[Blade Runner]

I just wish there was more BTS in JAV. I find it extremely interesting but it also kind of de-eroticizes (is that even a word?) the whole process.

IMO BTS is either hit or miss proposition. Interviewer must ask interesting questions. Interviewed must have interesting responses. If both are dull and boring then interview will be likewise. Needless to say, subtitles would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Blade Runner]

I have always wondered, in JAV sex scenes how much of the action is spontaneous vs directed by the director. In other words, are they given direction to follow scene by scene, or just a basic outline and let them take it from there. Also, I would imagine there is a time limit to each scene that is followed by someone on the set-perhaps a production assistant. I know the basic outline of series like "r***ing in front of husband", and "forced to cum numerous times by my son's friends", certainly seem well scripted- you just fill in the actresse's name and the action is predictable. But what about the rest? If anyone has some thoughts. I would appreciate them.

Spontaneous rarely happens. I've seen it only a few times. IIRC scene between Erica Boyer and Buddy Love where he had two money shots. Basically, he couldn't get enough of her. IMO spontaneity happens when actress demands something not in the script.

 

[Blade Runner]

I just wish there was more BTS in JAV. I find it extremely interesting but it also kind of de-eroticizes (is that even a word?) the whole process.

Maki Tomada's comeback movie has a non-sex scene with Yumi Kazama. Its tone was BTS and not part of the story. Supmop requested a translation.

 

[Supmop]

Maki Tomada's comeback movie has a non-sex scene with Yumi Kazama. Its tone was BTS and not part of the story. Supmop requested a translation.

yes

I'm curious to know what they talking about, especially thats the first time they met on screen again

 

[ding73ding]

none of it seems very spontaneous if you watch the sausage being made so to speak.
I just wish there was more BTS in JAV. I find it extremely interesting but it also kind of de-eroticizes (is that even a word?) the whole process.

Spontaneous is highly overrated. Or you mean authenticity, yeah we want real tits, real dicks, real penetration, real sperm, real squirt (or do I?) but... real sensation (not loud fake yelling when a sub-par half limp prick tickles pussy lips), real pain/discomfort (S&M), real horror (r***)??? Authenticity is overrated too.

I want to see a well planned, well scripted, well filmed and well produced video. A well produced vid is more authentic than a "authentic" movie, yeah ok it sounds contorted but I think the general idea is well known and well accepted in Film Study 101. The sex act on video is a performance not a objective recording of real amore. So it should be convincing not spontaneous. The performer should be able to pretend any emotion to the theme of the story and esp. male performer need to get hard and cum at the required moment(s) in the vid. The vid is produced for the pleasure of the viewer, not the pleasure of either male and/or female performer.

I prefer real tits (but have no absolute objection to well-carried-out surgery), I demand real (big) hard cock, but taking a blue pill or three, fine. Other than that, I have no need for authenticity or spontaneity. Real sperm, yes for 95% of AV but I also like the fake futa porn, tentacle/monster/heroine porn, B-porns, for the occasional laugh, then the huge amount of sperm has to be fake, that's just saying most issues aren't absolutely absolute.

IMO BTS is hit or miss proposition. Interviewer must ask interesting questions. Interviewed must have interesting responses. If both are dull and boring then interview will be likewise. Needless to say, subtitles would be greatly appreciated.

Having made the above rant, the problem with a lot of interviews (esp. debut vids) is that the interviews are almost completely fake. Like I said, fake is not on its own unacceptable, problem is that the fake interview is so pre-packaged so standardized so generic you can just drop in each new girl's face and name, and (echo!) you got another debut interview.

Proper BTS, behind the scene, is not interview (I know even western porn script out or rough-plan the BTS, but still it's more casual). Proper BTS is interesting because we get a peak into the professional world, yes it often de-eroticizes the whole process. And I'm pretty sure that's the reason why we see so little of it in JAV. IMHO, most AV customers are kind of gullible and believe in the persona that the studio/agent creates for each idol. The BTS might demystifies the idols and damage sales in a measurable way.

But already I have no illusion of most AV authenticity (e.g. the "fans" in fans fest are paid actors) so I actually get quite a kick out of seeing the how and the who. Say a couple of JK-ish idols who are pretty high in current ranking, Atomi Shuri and Koharu Suzuki, both are very good at playing young innocent inexperience shy JK. But I think in reality Atomi Shuri isn't that young, and both are making quite a lot of vids per year. So I imagine in real life they are not shy at all and very comfortable being nude and fucked and handling bodily fluids, so if there's a BTS I'd very much like to see that aspects, or perhaps it's kind of opposite, she might to totally grossed out by sperm, but when the camera is rolling she put on the game face and just perform. Anyway I'd like to see a bit of her real self, and should make me enjoy and admire her performance that much more.

 

[Blade Runner]

Spontaneous is highly overrated. Or you mean authenticity, yeah we want real tits, real dicks, real penetration, real sperm, real squirt (or do I?) but... real sensation (not loud fake yelling when a sub-par half limp prick tickles pussy lips), real pain/discomfort (S&M), real horror (r***)??? Authenticity is overrated too.

I want to see a well planned, well scripted, well filmed and well produced video. A well produced vid is more authentic than a "authentic" movie, yeah ok it sounds contorted but I think the general idea is well known and well accepted in Film Study 101. The sex act on video is a performance not a objective recording of real amore. So it should be convincing not spontaneous. The performer should be able to pretend any emotion to the theme of the story and esp. male performer need to get hard and cum at the required moment(s) in the vid. The vid is produced for the pleasure of the viewer, not the pleasure of either male and/or female performer.

I prefer real tits (but have no absolute objection to well-carried-out surgery), I demand real (big) hard cock, but taking a blue pill or three, fine. Other than that, I have no need for authenticity or spontaneity. Real sperm, yes for 95% of AV but I also like the fake futa porn, tentacle/monster/heroine porn, B-porns, for the occasional laugh, then the huge amount of sperm has to be fake, that's just saying most issues aren't absolutely absolute.



Having made the above rant, the problem with a lot of interviews (esp. debut vids) is that the interviews are almost completely fake. Like I said, fake is not on its own unacceptable, problem is that the fake interview is so pre-packaged so standardized so generic you can just drop in each new girl's face and name, and (echo!) you got another debut interview.

Where is the line between fake and real? Interviewers sometimes have sex with actresses from BJs to creampies.

Proper BTS, behind the scene, is not interview (I know even western porn script out or rough-plan the BTS, but still it's more casual). Proper BTS is interesting because we get a peak into the professional world, yes it often de-eroticizes the whole process. And I'm pretty sure that's the reason why we see so little of it in JAV. IMHO, most AV customers are kind of gullible and believe in the persona that the studio/agent creates for each idol. The BTS might demystifies the idols and damage sales in a measurable way.

I've seen one BTS that is similar to your comment. Sandra Romain, a fave, offered herself to a member of the crew. She laid down on the couch, opened her legs, and told him to fuck her. Poor sap was nervous, tried lube her with spit, and she refused. She told him to get it up, stick it in, and fuck her. NO LUBE. Needless to say, he was not up to the task. Sandra talked about him like he was a dog. She said he wasn't a real man among other insults. She really put him to shame. It removed the illusion of porn.

But already I have no illusion of most AV authenticity (e.g. the "fans" in fans fest are paid actors) so I actually get quite a kick out of seeing the how and the who. Say a couple of JK-ish idols who are pretty high in current ranking, Atomi Shuri and Koharu Suzuki, both are very good at playing young innocent inexperience shy JK. But I think in reality Atomi Shuri isn't that young, and both are making quite a lot of vids per year. So I imagine in real life they are not shy at all and very comfortable being nude and fucked and handling bodily fluids, so if there's a BTS I'd very much like to see that aspects, or perhaps it's kind of opposite, she might to totally grossed out by sperm, but when the camera is rolling she put on the game face and just perform. Anyway I'd like to see a bit of her real self, and should make me enjoy and admire her performance that much more.

An actress' real self would be easier to see away from a set. The JAV persona doesn't have to perform.

 

[gateway57]

I guess I was thinking more of BTS where they are actually shooting the scene and they show all the breaks and the scene actually being filmed. I'm not as interested in the interview part because most of them are pretty lame. Typical questions are like " Do you like big dicks"? and silly stuff like that. JM Productions, who made the Gag Factor series and other pretty hardcore series', used to put out whole 2 hour videos with on set outtakes, fights between the girls, and all kinds of other really crazy stuff. I doubt we'll ever see anything like that from JAV.