[7/18] Korean protesters deface Japanese flags, kill national birds

guy

(;Θ_Θ)ゝ”
Feb 11, 2007
2,079
43
This is a bit of a hot button and there's a lot of discussion going on, but if you don't know the background I will be concise about it.

The protest centers on the ongoing debate about the Liancourt Rocks, a pair of uninhabitable islets in the middle of the Japan Sea, and Japan and Korea have been in a dispute over whom they belong to.

The islets are referred to as Takeshima (in Japanese) or Dokdo (in Korean), but those names have been historically used to incorrectly identify other islands between Japan and Korea (the historical maps are inaccurate). To make things short, the earliest historical documents show that Japan claimed the rocks in 1905, and a Japanese-made geological survey at the time indentifies the correct rocks, however Japan has since continually changed its stance on whether or not the rocks belong to Japan or Korea, since at the time there was still confusion about exactly which islands were disputed. Pro-Koreans maintain that Dokdo has been part Korea since long before 1905, but there is as of yet no historical evidence that Korea had discovered the actual Liancourt Rocks, since all documents pre-1905 appear to identify a different pair of islands in their cartography and description.

The Japanese government announced that it would make changes to its education textbooks that would identify the Liancourt Rocks as being Japanese (barring any evidence that disproves the 1905 claim), which has led to the uproar in Korean protesters, who say that allowing Japan to claim the rocks is allowing Japan to rewrite history and to maintain its imperialist behavior.

Which leads to yesterday's incident. There have been protests before of all sorts, but yesterday's protest involved about 40 Korean veterans standing outside the Japan Embassy and killing live pheasants (Japan's national bird) while soiling Japanese flags:

attachment.php


You can imagine all the fuss that's going around right now.

There is a bit of irony though. As one astute reader pointed out, Japan's national bird is actually the Green Pheasant (Phasianidae versicolor). The birds killed in the protest were the Common Pheasant (Phasianus colchicus), and is actually referred to in Japan as Kourai-kiji (高麗雉), or "Korean Pheasant".

Links:
Korean protesters smash birds with hammers
Japanese textbooks to mention territorial claim
EDITORIAL: Takeshima issue
 

Larcx

Waga Itoshii Enzeru~
Dec 6, 2007
438
1
bah,killing animals 4 protest

why must kill's those innocent bird:nooo:

it's so wronggggg:warning2:

if they have 2 protest,at least do it on the right way!!
 

Maverick007

The Night Wolf
May 2, 2007
132
0
a pair of uninhabitable islets

So basically the Korean's are killing poor animals for a piece of land they can't even use?!?!

EDIT ADDED: Unless it's about the rights to the ocean that surrounds it...but still no reason to kill animals.

So...stupid...
 

guy

(;Θ_Θ)ゝ”
Feb 11, 2007
2,079
43
So basically the Korean's are killing poor animals for a piece of land they can't even use?!?!

EDIT ADDED: Unless it's about the rights to the ocean that surrounds it...but still no reason to kill animals.

So...stupid...

There is some debate about the economy around the area, namely fishing and potential oil. But this would hardly qualify as a diplomatic response from the general public if the main concern was economic rights.
 

Maverick007

The Night Wolf
May 2, 2007
132
0
There is some debate about the economy around the area, namely fishing and potential oil. But this would hardly qualify as a diplomatic response from the general public if the main concern was economic rights.

^-^ Sounds reasonable enough... So basically they're broke and they need another source of income for the region. But I think they're taking a step too far in trying to make a point. Just makes it seem like they're more of animals than of men.

Kind of reminded me of another incident regarding the American Meat Ban, where the streets leading to the presidential mall had to be blocked off due to riots.

EDIT ADDED: Sorry if I sounded too rash...
 

chompy

slacker
Staff member
Super Moderator
Emperor
Nov 7, 2006
1,763
616
What a few right wing nationalists do doesn't necessarily reflect on what the mainstream opinion is.

But South Korea sure does know how to protest in style.
 

Skyraida

Is Eating Your Internets
Mar 27, 2008
283
7
lol, i agree with you chompy, that way of protesting is very original. Although ethically it's debatable, but original none the less.
 

xeruel

黒英雄伝説
Mar 22, 2008
591
2
What a few right wing nationalists do doesn't necessarily reflect on what the mainstream opinion is.

But South Korea sure does know how to protest in style.

next thing we know, they might decapitate an eagle for the cow meat ban.....

burning flag or icon maybe one thing but killing an animal for a protest is plain sick...those birds are innocent !
 

guy

(;Θ_Θ)ゝ”
Feb 11, 2007
2,079
43
I forgot to say this. This is a wrong information. There are many historical evidences that Dokdo belongs to (South) Korea. When you write news, you should find information more carefully. http://forthenextgeneration.com/ <- This site has all of the information. Please visit this site.

From my understanding of the issue, "Dokdo" (and variations of the name in different Korean dialects) has been identified in many Korean texts that date far before the 1905 Japanese claim. The problem is that all of the Korean historical evidence (geographical surveys and literary references) describe the Usan islands, not the actual Liancourt Rocks, so unless further historical evidence is uncovered, there is no proof that Korea was aware of the existence of and claimed soveriegnty over the rocks in question.

Regardless, there is currently no "right" or "wrong" information beyond anybody's personal opinion on the matter. The continued controversy stems from both party's inability to listen to the opposing viewpoint. Japan has offered to take the matter to an international tribunal, but Korea has continuously refused to allow it.

I have visited the site you provided and unfortunately it is far from "factual". All of the theses represent only the pro-Korean perspective, and there is surprisingly little academic citation for historical evidence (what citation I could find was from various Korean Ministries and thus could be dismissed as propoganda). This site has a vast wealth of information on the debate with nearly endless historical documentation, evidence, academic analysis, and so forth -- and I would recommend it for anyone who may not be clear on the technical and factual issues at hand.






But that's besides the point. What is outrageous is the conduct of the protesters. You can fight for Korean soveriegnty over the Liancourt rocks, but there's no reason to resort to such extremes -- and it is impossible to think an international community will take any nation seriously when they allow for such brutish behavior.

Unfortunately, it appears that pro-Korean sentiments are so strong that to condemn this act alone would make a person anti-Korean, making impossible to both criticize this specific protest and yet still support Korea’s concerns. It makes any peacable, diplomatic solution impossible.

If you need a reality check to help illustrate the concept, South Korean Ambassador to Japan Kwon Chul-hyun has suggested the possibility of a different line of protest, that South Korea “could withdraw support for Japan in negotiations with North Korea” regarding “nuclear, missile, and abduction issues”.
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200807/200807180015.html

Essentially, South Korea could be willing to threaten Japan with nuclear warfare (from North Korea) by way of jeopardizing nuclear safety.

If you have an argument to make, let it be made in a civil, diplomatic manner. Extremists acts and threats like this have no place in the 21st century and should be condemned -- they will do nothing but create more enemies.
 

HarryBud

New Member
Jul 3, 2008
2
0
i never understood Korean people's mind. why do they have to be so aggressive and senseless. It's sad. They always have to kill or destroy something.
 

buttobi

Member
Mar 29, 2007
769
22
I don't know but seems to me Korean people believe they have the right to show brutality and hatred to Japan and its people in sort of retaliation for the brutality they received from Japan during the WWⅡ. Anger and hatred are so deeply rooted in people's mind that they tend to explode vehemently when the occasion arises.
 

downloadx

New Member
Mar 17, 2007
25
1
I don't know but seems to me Korean people believe they have the right to show brutality and hatred to Japan and its people in sort of retaliation for the brutality they received from Japan during the WWⅡ. Anger and hatred are so deeply rooted in people's mind that they tend to explode vehemently when the occasion arises.

Exactly, they have plenty of legitimate reasons to be very angry, but they show it by torturing innocent animals and throwing logic out the window. Simply condemning this torture of animals in Korea would brand you an anti-Korean in many people's minds.

Most Korean's don't approve of this form of protest, but they definitely tolerate it. They tolerated the mutilation of dogs in a different protest. Again, because speaking out against animal cruelty would gain you the wrath of some of these people. Unity and group think explains a lot of Korean behavior in these protests.

I don't have any problem with Korea trying to claim these islands, what I do have a problem with is:
1) Torture of animals
2) Not arresting people for mutilating animals in protest after protest
3) Not speaking against the torture of animals itself, other than the fact that they tortured the wrong animal.
4) Using violent protests over trade, gas, and other issues where violence is totally uncalled for.
5) Tying every unrelated issue together, such as the island issue to the nuclear North Korea issue
6) Using Nazi logic of repeating lies until they sound true, making up the truth, and claiming biased websites are fair and final verdict of truth. Ironically this is in cases where they may be right regardless and don't need these kind of lies to back them up on it.
7) Assuming anyone who cares about these animals or is against these methods must be anti-Korean.

I've been to Korea many times, and people there are really great until these issues come up. It's sad because they have an amazing culture and lots of wisdom to share. It's like meeting a normal person who's in a cult. 95% of the time they're awsome, then another moment they switch and become someone you can't recognize.
 

cattz

(◣_◢)
Jun 11, 2007
305
5
If you need a reality check to help illustrate the concept, South Korean Ambassador to Japan Kwon Chul-hyun has suggested the possibility of a different line of protest, that South Korea “could withdraw support for Japan in negotiations with North Korea” regarding “nuclear, missile, and abduction issues”.
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200807/200807180015.html

Essentially, South Korea could be willing to threaten Japan with nuclear warfare (from North Korea) by way of jeopardizing nuclear safety.

If you have an argument to make, let it be made in a civil, diplomatic manner. Extremists acts and threats like this have no place in the 21st century and should be condemned -- they will do nothing but create more enemies.

Strangely it just makes me think "Well, there's one ally for when the u.s. will have to invade eventually"
 

buttobi

Member
Mar 29, 2007
769
22
Hmmm, regarding the torture of animals, while I personally hate it I think it's a cultural thing. Probably Korean people in general have different values of life of animals than the Westerners. It can be said that they don't meet the present international standard but I will refrain from making moral judgements on values of a different culture.
 

downloadx

New Member
Mar 17, 2007
25
1
Hmmm, regarding the torture of animals, while I personally hate it I think it's a cultural thing. Probably Korean people in general have different values of life of animals than the Westerners. It can be said that they don't meet the present international standard but I will refrain from making moral judgements on values of a different culture.

Yes their views on animals is a cultural thing, and they can practice that in quiet anonymity if they like. But they've made a mistake in waving it in the spotlight in a protest against other countries and making a bad name for other Koreans who despise this practice.

Torture is also a cultural thing - in some countries to this day they will bury you halfway in the dirt and throw stones at you until you are mutilated and dead. For adultery. It literally happened just yesterday. Are we not allowed to apply morality to their culture? What if an American was being murdered in this way - as in being put to death for being r***ing by a man against her will? Can we agree that's murder?

I guess the running theme here for me is fascism and how it rallies the mob to lynch the "bad guy". The bad guy can be anything threatening our society, even a website or a thought.
 

buttobi

Member
Mar 29, 2007
769
22
Are we not allowed to apply morality to their culture?

My opinion: No, we shouldn't be. They have their own morals in Korea and their moral system must be working fine since otherwise the country would have never enjoyed the prosperity they are doing now. All they need is a lesson to learn:if they want to be respected as a member of the global community, they need to respect the morals and values of other members.
 

yukipon3133

New Member
May 1, 2007
1
0
Well, if protesting in such style keeps their minds off from their real problems (mainly their stagnating economy), they should keep at it as long as they like until reality catches up with their hypersized ego.
They may have been saved last time in 1997, but this time, I wonder who is going to come to their rescue...
 

pu554

New Member
Mar 9, 2007
1
0
Like Japan, is North Korea know that South Korea is this kind of evil killer so can not trust them? Also, in that region South Korea is only place where everyone become or want to become Christian, and now so much killing of innocent life.