篠田あゆみ AYUMI SHINODA... Nice body, but her face... butterface!

[Casshern2]

OPINION:

Gong Li is not beautiful. Photoshop a man's hair on her and she'll look like a man. A not so handsome one at that. At least these days. That's just me. Lucy has a sexy appearance. Beauty and sexiness are different.

OT: Case in point. I don't find Ayumi to be especially attractive in either face or body. Not my type. And that's the point. Everybody gets their boat afloat in different ways.

I'm Casshern2 and I know what I just wrote.

 

[darksider59]

I've seen some Ayumi's movies (Uncensored and censored) and I would say that she has a special face. She stands out and that's a good point. When I browse R18, I see good looking girls but they don't have any face feature that make them special, so I pass. For Ayumi, her eyes give her a sexy and mysterious look. And it's not necessary to mention her body, slender with curves, but fake boobs ?
For me, she's way prettier than Kamihata. I don't find Kamihata attractive at all.

Since Gong Li and Lucy Liu were mentionned, I will add my thoughts. I agree Lucy Liu has a distinctive face. I don't find her very attractive, Her special face features don't attract me that much., but she's far from being ugly :




If Fan Bing Bing is considered as the ideal of beauty in China, omg ! She looks fake from 100 km away. I really prefer her sister :



A little off topic lol, anyway, here are my two favourite chinese actresses :

Shu Qi (Well, she's taiwanese. I think she is the reason I've started to have a preference for asian girls back when I was 14-15), I can't believe she's 40 !


And Zhang Ziyi

 

[galactus]

This is very interesting conversation, I think!

I saw a couple posters say, "Kamihata is not attractive/beautiful". My actual quote was "by most standards of beauty more appealing than Shinoda". I think this is pretty much fact. Shinoda is sexy, but she is not pretty by the usual standards of beauty. I think it fair to say that if you disagree on that, you simply don't know what the usual standards of beauty are.

Also, I used Kamihata because she has a more distinctive face than many other JAV stars. I didn't mean to imply she was a great beauty, just that her face is both distinctive -- not as much as Shinoda of course -- and "prettier" than Shinoda. Shinoda's face is perhaps "sluttier" for lack of a nicer term, or perhaps "sexier" -- which is naturally a somewhat subjective description -- but as far as what a makeup artist or photographer would term a more ideal face. Shinoda doesn't have that.

Shinoda is not photogenic, her eyes too close together, the distances of her eye line to her mouth is too far apart. Her nose is not ideal and very long. I'm going to assume she has had plastic surgery to improve her looks and this is what came out of that? None of her features by themselves is ideal. The composition of those features is not ideal. What she does have going on is that the balance of those not so ideal features might make her stand out. But if she had an average looking body? Are you guys telling me that she would still be anywhere near a JAV star?

Once again, I'm not going to say that you fans have bad taste or whatever, since beauty is obviously very personal and subjective. I'm just trying to get an idea of what it is you all see in her.

As far as Lucy Liu being attractive, I can let that one go. But beautiful? I can see any number of Chinese women that look more or less like that by driving to different parts of my metropolitan community and none of them are getting double takes. I will not see anyone that looks like Gong Li and if I did I'm sure I wouldn't be the only guy that was sneaking a glance or staring a bit too long. Seriously, pictures don't do really attractive people justice. When you see someone like Lucy Liu on the bus, you just go *shrug*. But when you see someone like a Gong Li (and many others for that matter), you can tell they are special. It's like a pheromone they give off or something.

And if Gong Li looks like a male if you put a man's hairstyle on her... Well, I guess I'm in to guys too if that's the case. Oh, I only chose Gong Li because she is sufficiently famous that I thought more people would know her instead of choosing a less well known to non-Chinese people Chinese star of which there are many to choose from of course.

So what have we learned from all of this?

It appears that even when a woman has less than perfect features, if they are placed in a certain way there might still be a chance she turns out sexy even if she doesn't fit the typical standards of what most would call beautiful. It's not as simple as different strokes for different folks. We can certainly find pictures of people on the internet that are unattractive in every way imaginable. And we can find women that the rest of the "normal" people in the world would say is the most beautiful woman in the world and agree she doesn't get our juices flowing. So, yeah... I guess that is more or less the gist of it. Only the truly ugly can we almost all agree are hideous. Anything that looks ok to super hot will have fans and detractors.

Fan Bing Bing is pretty by normal standards obviously. My test for being truly hot is the look over my shoulder test. If I look back over my shoulder and pretend that person is behind me and if I am impressed or not. Strange I know. But it kind of takes you out of the just looking at pictures online routine which makes you feel jaded.

DONE! Thanks goodness I can type fast, LMAO!

 

[galactus]

The false premise is comparing JAV/porn stars physical attractiveness to mainstream actresses. Beautiful women don't consider porn as a career. Lucy Liu and Li Gong didn't consider porn because they're too beautiful for porn.

JULIA has the physical appearance to be a US/Western mainstream actress depending on her English-speaking skills. Her career arc could be similar to Shannon Tweed's movies (erotic thrillers with simulated sex scenes). I'm not familiar enough with Asian/Japanese cinema to determine a similar niche.

We will just have to agree to disagree? I don't agree with what you say here either.

 

[kharo88]

Shinoda is sexy, but she is not pretty by the usual standards of beauty. I think it fair to say that if you disagree on that, you simply don't know what the usual standards of beauty are.

Don't take this the wrong way, because I really am curious, but what are "the usual standards of beauty"? Because I don't think it's that simple, unless you mean symmetry, unblemished skin etc. - stuff that appeals to everyone. But other than that, I really don't know what you could mean. There are different beauty standards in Japan, China, the West, Africa etc. and even then it varies from person to person, so what do you think are the usual standards of beauty?

And this is not exactly about facial beauty, but I think it's still relevant: here's an article about a woman who was photoshopped to look beautiful by 18 different countries.

 

[theydonotwantto]

I don't like Shinoda's teeth. Her teeth make her face curved forward. Sorry, I'm not good in English. I don't like looking at her face.

 

[Zen10101]

She's a 6 for me. Her cheeks are a bit long and nose a lil too pointy, but she still has some allure which I'd probably describe as "foxy". Not a fan of her stuff though.

 

[Hans Kowalski]

I've got no beef with Ayumi or her face. If there's one popular AV idol that I'd call downright ugly, it'd be Hitomi. I'll never get her popularity among western AV fans.

 

[ding73ding]

I'm with the OP that Shinoda's face is un-erotic for me, if I get to do her, it would be doggie style all the way, that way I don't have to look at her face and at the same time play with her amazing knockers.

But the premise of the thread is kinda flawed. What's the point? No one ever says everyone likes her face, especially no one says everyone HAS to like her face. She appeals to certain AV fans, among them I imagine some have (real life) incest fantasy but that's just bias coming of my ass. So she has her fan base, which doesn't include me and a few others, what's wrong with that?

Gong Li is good looking, not Beautiful. Lucy Liu is kick-ass, not beautiful. Shu Qi is very cute (strange that some ppl want to make a Taiwan issue out of this, consider how much she time she spend in mainland China) but not beautiful... OK she's the most beautiful of the three so far.

All three are excellent example that success and attractiveness isn't just a beautiful face. Gong Li, especially is an amazing actor, despite that, if she had normal make-up on, she wouldn't turn many heads in China. Shu Qi's face is prettier but her acting skill is less. But anyway she has more than a few facial expressions in her bag of tricks and can recite lines. Lucy Liu, I don't think she got where she is with her pretty face.

Fan Bing Bing... now that's a once-a-lifetime rare beauty. Plus her acting is no worse than Gong Li. Maybe she's too beautiful, "looks fake from 100 km away", but that's a common curse for great Beauties. In a way she's too beautiful for me too... I just can't in anyway imagine being with her in any situation. Ahh I remember now... happened to me once... there was this young woman I encounter in professional situation, I am a few ranks higher (and older) and ok I check out girls at work all the time (who doesn't) but always maintain my dignity (a professional necessity) but that time... I personally took her around the whole facility and introduce her to many people, which her rank totally doesn't deserve. And a regular pretty face, say Shu Qi, also won't deserve.

But yeah she's too beautiful... my head might explode if I would date her or marry her. In any situation... work or personal, she would be such a distraction I will have to put some distance between me and her. Only way it could work out if I die and born again as a super handsome man-god to even stay on my feet around her.

And "universal" beauty, there's absolutely such a thing. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, and Universal Beauty is in the eyes of all the beholders. March a woman (or man, for that matter) down the street, whoever turn the most heads, wins. It's that simple.

It doesn't mean 100% of the beholders have to agree. Say @darksider59 isn't impressed by Fan Bing Bing, that's nothing wrong with her, or him. But march Fan Bing Bing down the street in Shanghai, Tokyo, New York City, she turns a lot of heads.

But still... so what? The most beautiful face isn't everything in the world. It matters most for magazine covers and posters. That counts for something but not, by far, the most important quality in mainstream media nor in AV/porn. Maybe BJ/Gokkun fans have a different perspective?

 

[kharo88]

And "universal" beauty, there's absolutely such a thing. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, and Universal Beauty is in the eyes of all the beholders. March a woman (or man, for that matter) down the street, whoever turn the most heads, wins. It's that simple.

I think that's not only contradictory but also totally false. Universal cannot be used here in the same sense as, say, "universal truth". Just a quick definition, courtesy of google: "Truth is considered to be universal if it is valid in all times and places. In this case, it is seen as eternal or as absolute." And a definition of universality in general: "In philosophy, universality is the notion that universal facts can be discovered and is therefore understood as being in opposition to relativism." Like you said, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. That means it's subjective (and relative). Some will consider X beautiful, others will never. How can, then, there be such thing as universal beauty? If someone turns more heads than others that just simply means that they might be more popular, not that they are "universally" more beautiful. Besides, I'm pretty sure it would also depend on the street, so to speak. I wouldn't assume that X would appeal to people here and there and over there because, again, people have different tastes.

It doesn't mean 100% of the beholders have to agree.

Of course everyone would have to agree. That's what universal means.

The most beautiful face isn't everything in the world. It matters most for magazine covers and posters. That counts for something but not, by far, the most important quality in mainstream media nor in AV/porn. Maybe BJ/Gokkun fans have a different perspective?

I'm not a Gokkun fan, but in my case, when it comes to looks, a beautiful face is the only thing that matters. That's the deciding factor - I don't care how great of a body a girl has if I don't find her face beautiful, because then I just won't care about her in that way at all. And the reverse is also true. If a girl's got a face that I find attractive I'm okay with pretty much any kind of body, hot or not, or in the case of JAV, her performance.

 

[Inertia]

I think women like Ayumi Shinoda and Lucy Liu are popular with those who like Asian women looking (and I hate to use the word) "oriental". They both have very angular faces with slanted eyes.
I'm sure other people also just find them attractive for other reasons, but obviously someone like Ayumi Shinoda has her fans in Japan and abroad and it's more than enough to make her a high-ranking AV star.

 

[ding73ding]

I think that's not only contradictory but also totally false. Universal cannot be used here in the same sense as, say, "universal truth". Just a quick definition, courtesy of google:

Wow... clearly we are past the age of quoting OED... but fine.

I'm not interested to discuss philosophy on AO, especially it's gonna WAYYY OT in this thread. But the the so-called universality (your bold, not mine) is only a platonic ideal. By that definition, nothing is universal, so it's practically useless concept. Oh you say, but 1+1 = 2 is universal truth? Duh... give me evidence everyone agrees with it. Rather I will find you, easily, thousands of people, adult, sane, otherwise "normal" people who would challenge that. You simply can't find absolute total agreement on ANYTHING with all of humanity. So let's take a pragmatic view of universal ... hmm ... truth? Hmmm I really don't even know if TRUTH is very meaningful here. We were talking about Beauty. So isn't universal perception more meaningful than universal truth?

Ok ok... enough games, I will give you a concession, I take back the word "universal" (I had a whole argument built around Miss Universe all lined up, but let's not ...), so let's use the more clinical word "objective". There's subjective beauty, which is what any one individual find attractive (but even that's extremely contextual, attractive in what situation, for what purpose?) and fine we do like to chatter about that on AO, some love Ayumi Shinoda, I don't, many love AIKA, I don't, I love Julia, many don't, I love Shunka Ayami, some don't. It's fine for chatter fodder, but never worthwhile to get too heated about it. And you will never ever find one face that will be judged beautiful by 100% of people.

Then there's "objective" beauty. The face that most people find attractive. As I originally put it “March a woman down the street, whoever turn the most heads, wins”. A lot of commercial outfit turns it into a science, they can predict how much money they will make (selling magazines, say) by putting a face vs. another face on the cover.

For a while, I heard, "the most beautiful woman on Earth", according to Google (my preferred source OED is silent on that) was Aishwarya Rai. Now no matter my personal judgement (eye color might be too light), as far as "objective" beautiful goes, yeah I totally dig it. On this Earth, sure the greatest majority of people (including me) would find that face very beautiful. Harder to say if the greatest plurality of people would think that she's the most beautiful on Earth (you'd get a lot of BS answers like "my GF", "my wife", "my daughter", "Jesus" etc).



Subjectively I'd prefer Fan Bing Bing over Aishwarya Rai, objectively, Rai does have an edge over Fan.

when it comes to looks, a beautiful face is the only thing that matters. That's the deciding factor - I don't care how great of a body a girl has if I don't find her face beautiful, because then I just won't care about her in that way at all.

Shall we just say your view is hardly UNIVERSAL?

 

[kharo88]

-

 

[kharo88]

Hmm, for some reason the QUOTE function went crazy and edit doesn't even do anything when I try to sort it out! I'll repost that post above for easy reading:

"Wow... clearly we are past the age of quoting OED... but fine."

?

"I'm not interested to discuss philosophy on AO, especially it's gonna WAYYY OT in this thread. But the the so-called universality (your bold, not mine) is only a platonic ideal. By that definition, nothing is universal, so it's practically useless concept."

Uh, you might want to use Google...

"Duh... give me evidence everyone agrees with it. Rather I will find you, easily, thousands of people, adult, sane, otherwise "normal" people who would challenge that. You simply can't find absolute total agreement on ANYTHING with all of humanity. So let's take a pragmatic view of universal ... hmm ... truth? Hmmm I really don't even know if TRUTH is very meaningful here. We were talking about Beauty. So isn't universal perception more meaningful than universal truth?"

That's the thing - and I admit that I phrased that poorly in my previous post -, no one has to agree with it because it will still be true regardless. That's the point. Also, I brought up universal truth so that I can let you know what universal means to me in the context that you used it, I never said it was otherwise relevant here. Please, pay attention!

"Ok ok... enough games, I will give you a concession, I take back the word "universal" (I had a whole argument built around Miss Universe all lined up, but let's not ...)"

Oh, really? Should we also talk about Miss Earth when discussing geology? ...

"so let's use the more clinical word "objective". There's subjective beauty, which is what any one individual find attractive (but even that's extremely contextual, attractive in what situation, for what purpose?) and fine we do like to chatter about that on AO, some love Ayumi Shinoda, I don't, many love AIKA, I don't, I love Julia, many don't, I love Shunka Ayami, some don't. It's fine for chatter fodder, but never worthwhile to get too heated about it. And you will never ever find one face that will be judged beautiful by 100% of people.

Then there's "objective" beauty. The face that most people find attractive. As I originally put it “March a woman down the street, whoever turn the most heads, wins”. A lot of commercial outfit turns it into a science, they can predict how much money they will make (selling magazines, say) by putting a face vs. another face on the cover."

Again, I don't agree. When there's taste involved, there's no objectivity. That's like saying that the most popular music is objectively the best music. Objectively speaking, there is no good or bad music, just different kinds, what makes it good or bad is what you like or don't, and if enough people find it good then it gets labeled as popular. It's the same thing with beauty. If you call a girl objectively beautiful because (you think) that she would appeal to the most people, you're basing objectivity on popularity, that is, people liking her because of their own tastes (subjectivity). Not to mention that it would be relative. Sure, many people might agree that, for example, Fan Bing Bing is beautiful if we're only talking about her, but compared to another girl whom they like even more they'd say she's merely average. And lastly, think about this: even if (and that's a big if), say, 3 billion people find someone beautiful, that still leaves 4,4 billion people who don't. How can she be objectively beautiful then, even by your criteria (where objectivity just means popularity)?

"For a while, I heard, "the most beautiful woman on Earth", according to Google (my preferred source OED is silent on that) was Aishwarya Rai. Now no matter my personal judgement (eye color might be too light), as far as "objective" beautiful goes, yeah I totally dig it. On this Earth, sure the greatest majority of people (including me) would find that face very beautiful. Harder to say if the greatest plurality of people would think that she's the most beautiful on Earth (you'd get a lot of BS answers like "my GF", "my wife", "my daughter", "Jesus" etc).

View attachment 725647

Subjectively I'd prefer Fan Bing Bing over Aishwarya Rai, objectively, Rai does have an edge over Fan."

That's nonsense, but I won't repeat myself, hopefully you read what I wrote above. Besides, Cyndi Wang is obviously the most beautiful girl in the world! (Or at least she was in her prime...)

​

"Shall we just say your view is hardly UNIVERSAL?"

Yeah, never said it was! That's kind of the point, here!

 

[BDrake]

Ayumi is God. Face and all.

 

[bigloser0]

to me, ayumi shinoda is not really that attractive. However, I like her slutty face which makes her hot. Her crooked teeth compliment her face a little. And she suits some curls at the edge of her hair. Makes her even more women. Her looks stands out from the crowd. Hope she doesn't age much and stay this way till she retires.

 

[bigloser0]

in DANDY-414 she was fucked by a few black guys. their cocks are big. Indeed too big for her. Not sure if she is moaning in pleasure or in pain. Even though her little sister expanded to accommodate their entry. but if she wants something smaller and pleasurable, I am sure many of our bros here qualify with ease. I would love to fuck her too. And she definitely qualify to be my gf.

 

[darksider59]

to me, ayumi shinoda is not really that attractive. However, I like her slutty face which makes her hot. Her crooked teeth compliment her face a little. And she suits some curls at the edge of her hair. Makes her even more women. Her looks stands out from the crowd. Hope she doesn't age much and stay this way till she retires.

She is already retired. There new releases coming out but a guy noticed that it was from 2014.

 

[bigloser0]

Here she is just walking with a normal face, casually looking like a goddess.
View attachment 718995

Her face is too unique and her body is attractive.
For me Girlfriend? Anytime.

 

[SouthBeachNow]

Different strokes for different folks. I've always been really fond of her face. She has a unique look.

I think Ayumi Shinoda is gorgeous!