Becoming A Japanese Citizen

[sergeidragunov]

yo c69!

And to the guy that asked (sorry, I don't remember your name -_-), yes, I love Metal Gear.

My name is Sergei! nice to meet you online! I love Metal Gear baby!(MGS OST too!) so have you finished all Metal Gear?! I've finished all Metal Gear(that includes MGS4).

Big Boss is my favorite there! I salute Big Boss! How about you!? The credo of Big Boss and The Boss "Be loyal not to your country, not to your mission but to yourself"

I assume that you also want too meet gaming living legend "Hideo Kojima" right!? I want him to sign my ps3 and his partner Ms. Yumi kikuchi! Woot!

Woot! This thread is blazing hot like a barbeque!

 

[guy]

Perhaps a different way of talking about the conflicting "reviews" of Japan can be summed up like this:

You want to go to Japan.
- If you do it right way, it can be the most amazing place/experience. And for many people, it is.
- If you do it wrong way, it can be a living hell. And for many other people, it is.

So far you just don't have anything significant that would lead us to believe you would be capable of doing it the right way. It doesn't mean you're wrong for feeling the way you do -- many of us started off in the same boat. But for those of us that have survived, we learned things the hard way, so we'd rather give it to you straight than see you turn into another one of those "tragic/horror" stories where people got swept up in the illusion of a perfect Japan despite the glaring realities.

Personally I think it's fine for you to still be "dreaming"; you're young and have quite a bit of time before you're forced into making life-long commitments. But you should also dream about other things, then try them out and see what really motivates you and makes you happy.

 

[Ceiling Cat]

Aquamarine: In all fairness, he actually wrote "accuse me of wanting to live in Japan because I think I'll be some kind of sex-idol...", and not that he thought he would be. In any case, sure, it would be fun to watch him suffer, but he might take some perfectly good girl down with him (sorry, C69, couldn't pass up the chance to make a joke there)... feel free to psychoanalyze him though.

C96: I put my background down not because I thought you wouldn't believe me, but to show that I wasn't just some other idiot on a forum spouting off regurgitated advice since the internet is full of people like that. Getting back on topic, start with your education first. Take me, for example: I graduated with an associates in fire science and all the bells & whistles associated with being a paramedic. Sounds great, right?

Wrong.

Once bad accident or lapse in patient care, and I'm not only out of a job, but trying to start a new career in a sh!tty economy with no real education under my belt. I really wish I could afford to work full time and still get something done in school, even if it's at a community college. Hopefully you'll listen to this advice since it isn't coming from a high school counselor or someone your parents' age...

Anyways, stick with getting through school for now, and take Japanese so you'll at least feel like you're moving towards your goal. If you don't go to Japan until you're after 20, even better-- I did a lot of traveling to Taiwan, Japan, Hong Kong, and S. Korea since I was a kid, but I didn't really start enjoying those vacations until I was in my twenties. Kinda like how having a girlfriend when you're 12 is useless since you don't know what the hell you're doing anyways. If you go to Japan now, you'll probably hit a maid cafe in Akihabara and get the wrong idea, then wonder why you're getting thrown out of the place.

Everyone else looking to score in Japan: I worked as a lifeguard on a dive boat out in Hawaii, and the way Japanese girls act on vacation is completely different from how they act at home. If I based everything I knew about Japanese girls from the one-night stands I racked up working at that job, I would probably expect to have the ground before me lined with panties from Narita all the way to my hotel. Truth is, even my girl acts different when she's back home. She doesn't do all the naughty sex-in-a-public-place routines, and all the women in general behave much differently once they're back in Japan (unless you find her on the set of a pacopacomama production). Your best bet is to get clean cut and walk around Roppongi Hills with a suit on; maybe some girl will think you work for an American company in Japan, and actually talk to you. For the most part, they won't really look at you much or make eye contact (I'm an average guy and I don't look like Brad Pitt). The bakery in my girls' neighborhood was fully staffed with cute chicks, and I went there almost every morning to get breakfast. You know how many times they asked personal questions about me? Maybe once or twice, and it was about my work (I guess they saw my EMS shirt and thought I was a doctor... wish I had that income). They just don't do that at work unless you're at a sex club, and you won't be getting into one anytime soon unless you can convince the six Nigerians at the door to let you in.

Sorry to be such a downer... okay, here's some pics from my last visit to cheer you all up:

 

[desioner]

I've been here for 5 years and have to agree with what most have replied with thus far. I prefer not to expand on my experiences. Some people ask me if I'm interested and or going to change my citezenship to Japanese. Hell no. I have no need nor desire to do so. I love living & working here and that is something that never needs to happen.
Best of luck on finding out who you are. If and when that happens I think that the choises that are available will become clearer to you.
desioner

 

[C69]

To start, Canada is in America, hate to tell you. Good lord, what is the United States education system teaching their youth?

Canada is on the continent of North America, and the term America is usually used interchangeably with United States. Ask any foreigner what they think of when you say the word "America" - the United States, not Canada.

Sure, if you want to be extremely technical, Canadians are Americans (do you really want to be associated with us?). It's all in the word usage. People from Canada are Canadians; people from the US are American. Is it literally right? No, but that's just how it goes; the US thinks it owns the world. Besides, what else would you call people from the US? United Statians? I don't think so.

We have answered your questions.
You are not suitable right now to live in Japan.
Presently you are useless in Japan.
Make yourself useful.

Feel free to bitch and complain about how poor you are, how emo you are and how intellectually dull you are. It won't change the fact that if you keep your current attitude, you'll find yourself in even more seclusion in a country where you know no-one, have no friends and where even your peers will avoid you because you're no fun to be around.

To reiterate, grow yourself a pair of balls, be a f'in man and grow up a bit more. Then when you become useful (this portion isn't an insult), then maybe consider moving. For the time being, you are of no use to the Japanese society. That isn't an insult. That's the cold hard truth.

You + Now = A used tampon circling the toilet drain
You + Degree + Testicular Fortitude = A fresh tampon, newly opened

When have I ever said that me moving to Japan was going to be something I planned on packing up and doing next weekend? You're constantly putting words in my mouth. It would be years, at the very least, before that would even be financially feasible. I was planning on attending college before I ever moved, I'm just not sure where. I'm going to visit Japan first, of course. Preferably twice or more, though that's incredibly doubtful. Though if my mom kicked the bucket, that would help out a lot.

I think you missed the point when I explained why I wanted to move: to. Start. Over. I want to move somewhere, find myself, start my life over, and better myself. I don't plan on getting off on the wrong foot by crying and begging everybody to love me and give me stuff for free. I didn't grow up rich, I worked for what I got, and it pisses me off more than anything to see people with money blowing it and complaining about stuff. My life, no matter where I live, even in America, won't be easy; I know that, I've always known that. And I don't see that changing.

Moving isn't something I can do right now. I will be older and wiser and hopefully have several trips to Japan under my belt before its actually financially feasible to move. I want to know I have the money to find somewhere to live before I ever decide to move. When the time comes to move, I will have everything planned out, and my plans usually work in the end. I have nothing planned right now because it will be years before I can move, no matter where I move.

I asked a few simple questions; you turned it into an argument by putting words in my mouth. Hell, I would go an extra yard and claim that I am more mature than you, because I can answer someone's question(s) without fighting with them, being a prick, and making assumptions.

Sorry to get off on the wrong foot with you; hopefully outside of this topic we can be a little bit friendlier.

My name is Sergei! nice to meet you online! I love Metal Gear baby!(MGS OST too!) so have you finished all Metal Gear?! I've finished all Metal Gear(that includes MGS4).

Big Boss is my favorite there! I salute Big Boss! How about you!? The credo of Big Boss and The Boss "Be loyal not to your country, not to your mission but to yourself"

I assume that you also want too meet gaming living legend "Hideo Kojima" right!? I want him to sign my ps3 and his partner Ms. Yumi kikuchi! Woot!

Woot! This thread is blazing hot like a barbeque!

I have played MGS1-4 and beaten them all. I have only played Metal Gear 1 and 2 on emulator, and I didn't get very far in either of them. It was several years ago, I knew NO Japanese whatsoever, and the games were Japanese ROMs.

I don't know who my favorite character would be. I love Big Boss as well, but Snake is definitely a great character, as well. I just honestly hated the ending of MGS4, though. I think it could have been so much better. It was too drawn out, they revealed everything at once right there at the end, and it probably would have just been better with Snake *SPOILERS* killing himself. It would have been extremely epic. Also, I hate the Meryl/Akiba relationship. MGS4... it was great the first time through, and I absolutely loved it, but now that I reminisce about it, it wasn't nearly as good as the first 3, and I found a lot of problems with it.

And yes, I would die if I met Kojima. He's brilliant.

Finally, @Guy and Ceiling Cat, thanks for being a little more polite in your replies. I think you two would benefit from reading earlier in my post; to reiterate, this is not some split second decision I am making, and it will be several years before I can realistically make the jump anyway.

Wish me luck and happiness, I suppose.

 

[guy]

Finally, @Guy and Ceiling Cat, thanks for being a little more polite in your replies. I think you two would benefit from reading earlier in my post; to reiterate, this is not some split second decision I am making, and it will be several years before I can realistically make the jump anyway.

Wish me luck and happiness, I suppose.

Oh, we know you weren't speaking flippantly. But you asked an honest question, and we're here to give you honest answers. :goodboy:


And indeed good luck to you if you decide it's the right path for you! :happy:

 

[aquamarine]

I had a nice big reply typed up, hit submit and the damn site timed out AGAIN. What the hell is going on with the servers here, FFS.

 

[Sakunyuusha]

Demand has outstripped supply.

Demand = thousands of users who browse the site for free

Supply = one man who pays a periodic fee for bandwidth, hosting space, domain name; and a one-time "lifetime subscription" fee for a vBulletin license
~plus~ a J-list sidebar ad and a DLSite sidebar ad that nobody somebody clicks on every now and then.

I know your question was rhetorical, but I just ... couldn't ... resist. @_@ Sorry in advance.

 

[aquamarine]

anyway, i'm just gonna let it end there

Good.

If you, and this kid can't handle real life and realistic attitudes, then seriously, what are you doing here?

You're welcome to call me an asshole. I'm proud to be it. Will I do whatever I can to keep little bright-eyed HEY, I'M SO COOL BECAUSE I'M OTAKU kinds of people, then you bet I'll do just that. It's as bad as foreigners moving to your home-town, then taking up space in your favorite hang-out while sweating and playing magic cards.

Most online that have wanted to go to Japan have the following...
1) No life experience
2) Too many Japanese cartoons
3) The expectation that just because they are (often) white, they'll find a beautiful geisha to marry and fuck like the JAV's they watch alone in their parents bedroom on a Friday night
4) No idea about what a real job is all about and think that they'll become millionaires while teaching English here

Yes, that is why I try to suggest folks from North America don't bother coming here.

AAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD back to that original thread:

OP: get a degree, then consider moving to Japan. As a yank, you don't even have the option of getting a working holiday visa so right now, you can come and visit for three months at a time, before being required to leave. Should you choose to stay longer, you will be arrested if found with an expired travel visa, put in a Japanese jail for ninety days (where it is according to my old room-mate "Strict.... but fair" after he lost 90 pounds in three months) and then deported to a major city in your home country. For Canadians, it was discovered that no matter where you originally flew FROM, you'd be escorted back to Toronto care of the J-Govn't.

So for now: Get a degree. In the mean-time, feel free to ask questions. I just hate over-eager kidlets. I've even had a 19 year old kid from Montana ask me if I can find him a "China-Doll Girlfriend" for him.... what's wrong with that request....?

 

[Ceiling Cat]

I had posted a response earlier, but the damn server was down. In any case, I'm not typing everything out all over again... but in short, I find myself getting irritated with gaijin doing stupid things in Japan, which is why I have to agree with aquamarine on all of this. It seems that the vast majority people I see who want to go to Japan so badly are really running from something back whee they're from; maybe they're bored, they have nobody to confide in, or they're depressed and stuck in a sh!tty job. Whatever. Going to another country when you have no education, job, and ability to speak the language will not make things better, and if your only experience with Japan comes from AV and Ranma, then you really have no business knocking aquamarine for what he's telling the o.p.

Oh, and to add a fifth thing to his list: no girlfriend. Not to sh!t on the single guys here, just stating what I've observed...

 

[fated2]

OP: IMO, becoming a Japanese citizen is a bit over the top for gaijins who just want to live in Japan for the rest of their lives. The best thing to do is try and become a Permament Resident. Permanent Residents are basically citizens, but without the ability to vote or run for mayor and such. This requires you to live there for at least 10 years. You will have to go through the hassle of renewing whatever visa you have over these years. This is only if you have a sponsor from an Japanese employer. Otherwise, you're just a tourist and need to leave and then come back. This takes me back to your other question about school. YES, you really need a college degree before you come here. Otherwise, life will be hell. Don't go in over your head thinking about all the cool things about Japan like the cars, anime, and all that. Check youtube for the gaijin bloggers, they have some good first hand info.

Don't even think about going to live in Japan without some sort of degree. A bachelor's degree seems to be the minimum. Things that the other people have said are very true. I'm hoping to break the news to you in a nicer way.

Go to college, get a degree, then plan your trip to Japan. Hopefully, during those years, you will study enough Japanese to pass the JLPT 4 or even the JLPT 3. These are language proficiency tests. 4 being the lowest/easiest and 1 being the hardest.

 

[guy]

Just to add one other thought. If you're serious about making a commitment to Japan, you should be able to pass JLPT 4 after 1 year of Japanese (from a decent college program), and JLPT 3 after another 1-2 years. If you aren't focused or resourceful enough to make that happen, you may need to take a step back and reconsider your expectations.

But of course, don't let JLPT dictate your life. Some people can pass JLPT 1 by the time they graduate from college, and yet can't muster the courage to talk to Japanese in-person. Some people are "born" fluent but can't pass JLPT 1. It's a nice thing to put on your resume as a starting point, but it's not the deciding factor. And you should treat it in the same way when deciding how viable it is to stay in Japan long-term.

 

[Mezzo]

There are people who have gotten Japanese citizenship in the past but it has become increasingly difficult. There is an Australian woman (who became a geisha, incidentaly) who was born in Japan and only left for a few years to attend University in the UK and Australia. She was denied citizenship simply because of a minor technicality. Simply put, the system is being re-designed to keep you out. Even if you do become a Japanese citizen you won't be treated like one. You will always just be a foreigner.

For anyone who has ever intended to live in Japan there are two rules:
1. You will never truly fit in.
2. You won't want to truly fit in. Hopefully there are some other people who spent more than a few weeks over there who can back me up on this...

 

[guy]

2. You won't want to truly fit in. Hopefully there are some other people who spent more than a few weeks over there who can back me up on this...

A rather stark way of putting it, but overall yeah.

There are both pros and cons to being a foreigner in Japan, and ultimately it's those differences that make spending time in Japan challenging and therefore rewarding (if you can handle the challenges).

Plus, if you were able to fit in perfectly in Japan, then chances are you are Japanese, and like many other Japanese, probably want to get out of Japan, rather than stay in.

 

[Sakunyuusha]

(sorry if this reply sound like it's just a rewording of what you guys are discussing right now, but I want to make sure I'm on the same page, so I'm basically throwing them back to you as questions and asking for affirmation or negation)

It sounds to me like foreigners receive special treatment in Japan, but the catch is that "special treatment" doesn't always mean superior treatment. It sounds like foreigners have to put up with a lot of hate, fear, or other bullshit but that the reward in exchange for their perseverance is that they live like small-scale celebrities. And I do mean small-scale, so please don't launch into a flame-attack about how I think all foreigners live like movie stars. That's not what I mean, not at all. What I meant was, think of it like this in reverse:

You were white, and you grew up in a town that was 98% white 2% other (black and Latino, let's say). Then one day, a new family moves into town. And they're Korean. The dad got a job transfer from California to where you live. The mom is a stay-at-home mom. They have a daughter your age and a son two years younger. You meet the daughter on the first day of the new school year and you instantly fall in love. She's so pretty! But you're not the only guy who wants magic to happen: tons of guys are falling for her! By the end of the first day of school, it looks like she's already found herself a boyfriend and you're left feeling jealous of him and wishing that you could be hers and she could be yours.

I think a lot of people on this board can imagine that. It never happened to me ethnically -- the girl it happened to for me was a white girl from Texas -- but it was pretty much the same story otherwise. The point is, the girl is pretty to begin with, but she becomes exotic by virtue of her foreignness.

So. Where am I going with this? Well, it sounds to me -- and you correct me if I'm wrong! -- but it sounds to me like if you're an average-looking guy in the states, then you'll have a pretty good chance of hooking up with someone in Japan. Why? Because these girls are interested in dating a white guy / black guy / latino guy / [non-Asiatic guy], and those guys are in small supply in Japan. In other words, you fit a niche that doesn't exist for you at home and within that niche you have very little competition!

And I don't believe that it's just Japanese girls who behave this way: I believe that there are many people in all ethnic groups and from both genders who are strongly attracted to "exotic" individuals. Some people aren't, but many people are. There are a lot of white guys, black guys, Latino guys, etc. who say "I like Asian chicks." There are a lot of Asian guys who say "I like white chicks." There are a lot of white guys who say "I like black chicks." etc. They may not be anywhere near the majority (if marriages in the United States are any indication), but they're still a big chunk of people and you can find them in all races and as either men or as women.

So ... I'm not saying you're a babe magnet or anything! @_@ I'm fully-aware that a lot of the girls you'll be attracting will be ugly girls or average-looking girls. But I'm just saying that if you were a 7/10 in Canada then you're an 8/10 in Japan. And the one little bonus point doesn't hurt. Is this fair to say?

And what I'm hearing from foreign citizens living in Japan is this: it's not just love life, but everything that's sort of special (in good and bad ways). Like ...
O people on the subway give you space (hey! good for me!)
X people on the subway give you space (goddammit -_- , I hate xenophobic Japan)

X people assume you're an idiot tourist all the time (god dammit -_-)
O people assume you're an idiot tourist all the time (cha-ching! I can pull one over on them! )

X you are denied many jobs, you suspect, purely on the basis of your race (god dammit -_-)
O you are offered many jobs, you suspect, purely on the basis of your race (god dammit ... but hey, if the job's paying $100,000 a year just to be a TV personality, I'll take it!)

On and on it goes. And they don't always have to be dichotomous like this. I just drew them up that way to make it easier to compare. I'm aware there are certain times where you just flat-out lose in Japan because you're a foreigner, but I'm getting the impression that there are other times where you have access to opportunities that no native-born Japanese person would ever have -- and I mean he's somebody with the exact same skills as you and the only difference is he's ethnically Japanese and you're not.

 

[Vegeta897]

Oh what an interesting thread this is (was?).

The amount of things Aquamarine has assumed about the OP (and I imagine anyone else who even has a vague interest in Japan) is just hilarious. And so many times he does it, even after being told directly that he is wrong on some of his assumptions.

Aquamarine, just because people in life can be assholes, does not give you the right to be one on here. Civilized people like to use internet sites like this forum to socialize with one-another, preferably in a polite manner.

Comparing the net to real life encounters in an attempt to justify your being an asshole is just ridiculous.

I'm just as sick of people like you as you are of people like the ones you describe. You're making just as many ridiculous assumptions and generalizations about them as they are making about Japan.

The OP did not come off at all like the typical anime nerds you find on the net raving about Japan and how they want to bang Japanese chicks.

He seems like an all right fellow who just is looking for some change in his life. What's the big deal with this? If he runs into problems, those are his own. You're the one who keeps telling him to grow up, well, the best way to grow up is to experience life himself, not be lectured by somebody on the internet.

You'll notice the thread topic is about him asking for some facts about obtaining citizenship in Japan. He's not asking for your life lessons, or for criticism regarding his life decisions and outlook.

I could go on explaining why your position in this thread is useless and stupid, (besides the actual factual help you did give) but alas there's no getting through to people like you over the internet.

I'd like to point out something I found funny though:

That is the LAST thing that I want to see more of in Japan.

You speak like you're a native, ahahaha. I don't think anyone gives a shit what you want and don't want to see in Japan.


Oh and because I know you're going to ask about my "backstory" and "personal experience", my answer is that it's completely irrelevant to anything I've said my post.

Edit: Quick after-word... Aquamarine, you would actually be a respectable person if you didn't tout your experience and knowledge like a pretentious ass, and shoot down everyone else based on mere assumptions of yours, on top of being completely stubborn. You are literally throwing your opportunity to be respected down the toilet by carrying yourself this way. And yes, I imagine you are okay with that, but you're also taking a shit on everybody you encounter by not considering the fact that you're making them angry or frustrated to have to deal with you.

 

[aquamarine]

Vagina: Tell you what, once you have REAL LIFE EXPERIENCE, then you can say I'm wrong. Sound good bucky o'hare?

Livin' 'yur laf in Ohia' has jack shit to do with Japan. Once you live in a large urban center in Japan for at least half a year, then please, come and correct me with everything I have said. In the mean-time, eat dick.

50% of your posts have been going against what I've posted. That's fine, YOU ARE ALLOWED TO DO THAT so don't go and say bullshit like "You don't have the right say be a jerk!" etc etc etc. You have your opinion, I have mine. You don't like it, that's fine. From the entierty of your posts, can now assume you're nothing more than a country bumpkin who's had no experience with Japan other than packing your pud to some cartoon tentacle porn. Hey, whatever gets you off is fine by me, but don't bother trying to hop online and play Mr. Savior just because I tell it how it is. Time to move out of momma's basement suite, K?

Happy new year to YOU.

 

[Sakunyuusha]

What is with all these new members who try to make a name for themselves by attacking aquamarine?

Newsflash: aqua's been here a long time and he's just playin' with ya. I wish I could telepathically transmit this message to every single new member who has done as you have done (which is three in the last month alone), but alas I cannot.

In other news, welcome to the forums. It's great to have another person who writes more than a semi-retarded "tanks a lott!" It's also great to see that you don't cow down to seniority and such, standing up for what you believe in. Good, good. A quick search suggests you came to A-O in search of JAV fetish videos, but maybe we'll cross paths again if you enjoy anime, hentai, or other Akiba culture stuff.

And for the record: aqua's a good guy (from what I can tell from a friggin' web forum ). You should check out some of his awesome pictures from life in Japan. Or his awesome photos in general -- the man's got talent.

 

[redrooster]

it would be good if some of you could imagine this being a discussion and no fight!

A well written word has more power than a sword, that should be known fact, there is no reason to derail, noise, shouting or fuss never is a good argument...

Please keep this in mind.

 

[Vegeta897]

What is with all these new members who try to make a name for themselves by attacking aquamarine?

That's an interesting way of putting it, but I don't really have much interest in making a name for myself here or joining the community. I just posted because I felt like nobody else was really saying what I thought needed to be said.

Newsflash: aqua's been here a long time and he's just playin' with ya.

This would be nice to know but I find myself not believing it Shouldn't he know when to stop? It's cute when he's actually fighting about something relevant, but when he randomly brings up where I live, or what my experience in Japan is when there's no relevance to what I said in my post, it's just tiresome, and I don't plan on making the same mistake again.

In other news, welcome to the forums. It's great to have another person who writes more than a semi-retarded "tanks a lott!" It's also great to see that you don't cow down to seniority and such, standing up for what you believe in. Good, good. A quick search suggests you came to A-O in search of JAV fetish videos, but maybe we'll cross paths again if you enjoy anime, hentai, or other Akiba culture stuff.

Thank you for the welcome and flattery. Indeed this place is one of my only sources for some nice fetish JAV.

And for the record: aqua's a good guy (from what I can tell from a friggin' web forum ). You should check out some of his awesome pictures from life in Japan. Or his awesome photos in general -- the man's got talent.

Oh definitely, that's why I said in my post that I'd respect him a whole lot if he wasn't so busy taking shits on everyone he views as below him or who contradicts him. Like I said I am having trouble believing he's really just messing around, but I'll just get back to lurking anyway so it won't be a problem.