It's the sex, stupid!

[ding73ding]

The JAV gossip thread, perhaps inevitably, got into some morality question from retirement and mental illness of some idols. I wanted to start a thread, wrote something, lost track of my main point, dropped it and then saw (with deep sadness) the OT went out of control, so let's try again.

This thread will be devoted to: when is AV stepping out of bound? Starting point is a lot of AV deal with molestation, r***, bondage, S&M, fetish, pedophilia etc. Is there a natural/sensible/tolerable/healthy limit to how extreme it can be or should be?

Just because some action is immoral and/or illegal doesn't mean it shouldn't be made into entertainment or art. If murders and robberies is mainstream prime time family entertainment, why can't sexual criminal or immorality be adult entertainment? But then there's something (perhaps irrationally so) yicky about r***/incest/loli porn.

Mainly I am not interested to talk about lawful restrictions of adult entertainment (aka censorship and vice policing. It's not off-topic, but the legality aspect is just too over-loaded with historic burden. Mainly I want to talk about, and encourage you all to think and discuss soft-limits. As just an example, I agree loli should be acceptable as a legit AV genre, but some (quite a few, actually) want so far that I have to question the mental health of their fans. Well... in my (very unprofessional) mind, pedophilia is a mental sickness, NOT a sexual variant.

Which... sorry... is why I chose that topic (I admit it might be too obscure/cute to be a good topic line) we know there are some men who masturbate to objects, rather than person. E.g. bra, panty, highheels. What if it's a video of highheel shoes or panty with no person wearing it? Is it still AV/sex vid? Yes their customer may be the vid for masturbation, but I think it's not sex anymore (that's why I made the topic "It's the sex") ... I used a more extreme (maybe non-existent) example, but there are many real examples that ... it's not sex anymore, despite it's showing a woman naked and having something shoved in her vagina (to be continued later). At some point it's not sex, it's just sick.

Oh... I have an example from years ago. I got a hentai manga translated in English and published in N. America (so it's not totally obscure non-mainstream fringe). The male character is so bored with vaginal, oral and anal sex that the female character (can't remember for sure, maybe a maid/sex slave) just can't even arouse him at all. The man wants to get off, so the only way for him to get hard on and satisfaction is to fuck the maid's eye socket (can't remember the background how she lost the eye, but not important.) So that's it, the manga's point is to watch the guy's big hard cock fucking a girl's eye socket. Sorry I can't accept it's sex (doesn't matter at all if I am aroused or turned off by it) , it's sick. The point is that it's different from gay porn or grandma porn, gay porn doesn't arouse me, and perhaps even disgusted me until not too long ago. But there's no denying it's porn and it's sex. To me, fucking a man's ass hole is entirely different from fucking an eye socket, or an apple pie. Fucking an apple pie is not sex, at least it's not porn for me. (sorry got a little rambling there)

The point of the topic is that there's a fraction of JAV that seems to be not about sex, but about hurt and pain and torture and negativity. And here I am disclosing/declaring myself a very kinky dirty old man. Some of my all-time fav are bondage, S&M or contain r*** scenes. Including a r*** vid KAWD-744 starring Koharu Suzuki who started this whole thing.


Contrast to KAWD-744, there are some (many) AV that's not just distasteful/yucky, but it's in the hurt/hate/misogyny category. For me that's getting unhealthy, getting too far.

I've said a lot. Not everything I have to say, but a lot. Let's open the floor for discussion.

Some ground rules: I want this thread to be uncensored. Any (almost) opinion is acceptable. But respect that others may not share your view. Don't try too hard to convince others to change their mind, because it's gets annoying. (Hopefully) everyone coming here has researched and think about things so it's unlikely a few thousand/million words will convert your opponents.

BUT I want to police the OFF-TOPIC stuffs. Being politically incorrect is perfectly fine (we are in a porn forum, right?) Being racist is fine, but don't bring in anything totally unrelated, PLEASE. A particularly grievous example was in the JAV Gossips thread. There's a discussion about same-race pedophiles and molestation in Japan. Then someone bring up interracial sex crime in Europe, how does that relate in any way to anything we were discussing??? Controversy is fine, I love controversy, but I get really pissed off when you, consciously or (even worse) unconsciously, muddy the water.

The language here is English (European), the topic is Japanese (Asian) so bias is ... our bread and butter almost. But think before you go more and more OT, if you bring your troll, I will bring mine and it will be ugly.

I think this topic should capture most of the OT topics from the "Koharu incident", excluding the white vs. X racial stuffs. (hopefully we won't get bogged down by this stuffs and focus on my main interest: SEX).

 

[barba]

i think you are more concerned with the mean and nasty tangents on which jav can easily divert. i’ll let others hash that out with you. what irritates me, and what is addressed by the title of this thread is when jav diverts to non-sexual (and in my opinion boring) tangents. example: in the old days, an hour-long video might have a girl do two sex scenes totaling about 15-20 minutes. the rest of the video was a waste… watching her get dressed, go out to dinner, ride in a car, talk, etc. what a gyp! c’mon man, it’s the sex, stupid. cut out all that other shit! it took years, but eventually they did cut out a lot of it.

but not always. i gave up on bondage films because the people who make them are rarely concerned about sex or girls. they like ropes. knots. symmetric knots. ok, you tied her up. FUCK HER! no, gotta fix this knot first. ok, now FUCK HER! no, got to show her to my friend and he’s got to slowly inspect my knots and then maybe we’ll dribble some hot wax on her. ok, NOW FUCK HER! no, got to find some pink or green toy and diddle her with it for 20 minutes. ok, for the last time (because it’s the sex, stupid) FUCK HER! no, i don’t know what my ding-dong is for. we’ll just leave her there. fade to black. YAAAAAAHHH!!!

i could go on and on. essentially, when you do anything else in a fuck flick except fuck, it better get somewhere quick or you lose me.

 

[anymous21]

The point is that all J4V artists workand some are forced ... what is done is based on a scenario from the director ... but there is also someone who cannot distinguish between real and fake ... What else is there about controversy

#Rumor

 

[jwlim80]

If certain genre stirs up feeling and makes you uncomfortable, then congrats, you are still human.
However if everything plays it safe and vanilla, everything will be just be bland and feels uninspired. For mainstream examples, why is that Batman movie from 2008 still memorable after a decade ? How much can you say the same about Marvel's 20+ titles ?

If my example does not convince you that much, rest assure that the bigger JAV studio have always police themselves if they feel some of their titles have become too extreme. Minimum had shut themselves down. Honnaka had ceased to release their 100 vs 1 creampie gangband. Moodyz fan thanksgive bus tour had been in limbo since 2015.

 

[kharo88]

but don't bring in anything totally unrelated, PLEASE. A particularly grievous example was in the JAV Gossips thread. There's a discussion about same-race pedophiles and molestation in Japan. Then someone bring up interracial sex crime in Europe, how does that relate in any way to anything we were discussing???

I quoted the part of your comment that I was responding to with that. If you don't see how that was related to what you were saying, the problem lies with your comprehension. And yes, I just went off topic. Do your worst, ding!

About soft-limits: that will vary from person to person. Loli fans will obviously be totally fine with that genre, others might not be. This goes for almost everything. Personally, I don't like a lot of things that are out of the norm, but to stay with r***: I don't ever watch it. Even if it's just a normal title but the actor is being a bit too rough (like "manhandling", hair pulling etc.) I fast forward. Being dominant is fine, that's only natural. But being rough is not. I mean, what's the point? Of course a man can subdue a woman, that's a given, I don't see where the fun in that is. Do people who enjoy that also get off on taking candy from children and tripping old women while crossing the street? Like, come on… And then to take that to the extreme with r***… that's just sick. And the same goes for pedophiles, people into bestiality, golden showers etc.

And since the Dingominator so graciously allowed us to be racist, let me just say that if it's anything besides white skinned people (whites, white skinned hispanic/asian) having sex I can't watch that either (Shibuya gals are an exception as long as they are not tanned to oblivion). In my eyes a white girl having sex with say, a black guy is the same as a white girl having sex with a goat - she's just degrading and humiliating herself, even if the act is otherwise completely vanilla. And yeah, I know I'll get a lot of hate for this if not outright banned by the mods, but in this topic I got the chance to speak freely about it, so I wanted to be completely honest. I hope at least some of you can appreciate that.

 

[M1N0RA]

example: in the old days, an hour-long video might have a girl do two sex scenes totaling about 15-20 minutes. the rest of the video was a waste… watching her get dressed, go out to dinner, ride in a car, talk, etc. what a gyp! c’mon man, it’s the sex, stupid. cut out all that other shit! it took years, but eventually they did cut out a lot of it.

I highly disagree.

The small, intimate moments when you see the performers out of character are one of my favorite parts of watching JAVs.
In my opinion it simulates the process of getting to know her little idiosyncrasies, the way you would by dating a girl.
I get it, you're just looking for the hardcore action, but some people might thing there's more to JAV than just the sex.

 

[ding73ding]

I don't get the need to make another thread ... and with this title! well sorry but it`s stupid

it was all JAV gossip related and if you make another thread for every time someone went diverted a bit well you would make a new one every day imo

whatever go for it..lets hope it will be as active as the Gossip one was

When it went 5 posts in a row, or one thousands words (whichever comes soonest) without directly involving new piece of JAV news/gossip, that's too OT for that thread. I don't know which part of the world you come from, but let me try to make an analogy.

Think of JAV Discussion as a tv channel (I know... old school), a thread (a good one, at least) would be a TV program, an audience should be able to expect what to see when he clicks into it. JAV Gossip is the six o'clock news or even better analogy 7 o'clock Access Hollywood show. On the news and Access Hollywood they never put out opinions, except for third party notable person (e.g. French President)'s opinion, which is news. Even if you really want to express your opinion and/or expend the topic horizontally (Japan sex crimes to European sex crimes) or vertically (what's the societal causes? What's the government responsibility) you keep the news program "clean". It helps to have a program/thread devoted to external facts. And separately have a discussion forum. A good example of vertical expansion is 60 Minutes it's newsy, but never news of the day, instead it's a deep investigative report of some major event of the time. And then free-for-all discussion, we have Fox and Friends. It's a good show too, but a smart channel keeps news/gossips in a news progam, deep reports in news magazine show, and opinions in talk show, all available but separate shows.

So JAV Gossip is Access Hollywood, not 60 Minutes, not Fox and Friends. That thread should be (ideally) 95% news and gossip. Of course I am first one to admit I violated my own intention. No matter what, I think it should be maintained at 75% news and gossip, and the rest maybe additional explanation or opinion directly addressing specific news item or person (so and so got arrested, then maybe worth to explain who she is, brief recount of her career) but not good to get into industry or society-wide general discussion (say drugs and sex workers).

If a news/gossip generates a 5+ posts discussion, it should be a new thread. Yes maybe make a new thread everyday. It happens all the time. A thread gets less than 10 posts in its lifetime is common enough, if you took at the forum a few days back, it happens at least once a day, new thread that generate little interests and/or die quickly. What's wrong with that? There's no cost to it, it takes only 5 more seconds relative to making a new post to existing thread.

 

[ding73ding]

In my eyes a white girl having sex with say, a black guy is the same as a white girl having sex with a goat - she's just degrading and humiliating herself, even if the act is otherwise completely vanilla. And yeah, I know I'll get a lot of hate for this if not outright banned by the mods, but in this topic I got the chance to speak freely about it, so I wanted to be completely honest. I hope at least some of you can appreciate that.

Well seems it's almost 24 hours and a few posters and no one took the bait yet.

Your sexual/racial preference that's only in your head, with your pants down or not, is your private prerogative. No one would police your thoughts as long as your actions (and words) remain a level of civilization. In fact, I think a lot of interracial fans are not too far off from you. They enjoy watching white girls or light-skinned Japanese girls get fucked or r***ing by black-skin dude or dudes precisely because in their eyes they are watching a girl violated by animals.

On a personally level, I don't share your view. Well... the reason is my ex's parents also called me an animal. Ha... it hurt, but only very briefly. In retrospect, I suspect she fucked me mostly because it pissed off her parents. Maybe it's in her Catholic genes.

Anyway we meet here not in real world, but in a specific context, of porn coming from a third county. I don't give a care if you are racist or not (psst, I am one too). I think you often have interesting things to say about JAV, that has not changed even after knowing you and I are opposites in at least one aspect (non-JAV). If we keep the topic to JAV, or tightly around sex industry, sex economy or sex activity, that's fine. And when people come to some disagreement, know that you opinion is yours, my opinion is mine. It's fine to explain yourself (often it comes to personal taste and/or semantics) but to go on and on and on.... come on all of us have been on the internet more than 3 days, you can never convince someone by repeating yourself, only louder.