I've got a request for futanari fans

[Sakunyuusha]

I have a friend who dislikes and disrespects the futanari fetish. He thinks it is gross and an indicator that a person is gay or bi. To be perfectly honest, so do I! As someone who doesn't like penises, I really do have a hard time understanding why a man would want a woman to have a penis -- and how such a man could possibly be considered heterosexual.

However, I also have learned to respect certain arguments of the hentai community's over time. To help you to understand, I'll share my most memorable experience.
[hide]I was a member on HongFire and I was being provoked -- perhaps "followed" would be a better term -- by two of the board's most vocal lolikon members, soran and Sphie. The three of us, and several others, were arguing about the legality of loli hentai in a series of threads which many feared would bring about HongFire's second "loli war". Cue a big roll of my eyes here. lol But anyway, it was in this series of arguments that in came a member named TSR. And he pointed out something to me which I have never forgotten to this day:

How is a lolikon not a pedophile? I'm not saying they're a child r**ist! But how is being a lolikon any different than being a pedo? What a bunch of bull.

Just because somebody enjoys r*** hentai does not mean he fantasizes about raping real women.

Just because somebody enjoys loli hentai does not mean he fantasizes about real children.

For many people, TSR's argument might not have been convincing. I can imagine a good many people saying, "But that's where you're wrong, TSR! The guy who likes r*** hentai does fantasize about raping women!" But I am not such a person. The reason TSR's argument resonated so well with me was because, unknown to him at the time, he had just struck the nail on the head: I was that very example of a person who liked many hentai stories in which a girl was forcibly taken advantage of but who was a-b-s-o-l-u-t-e-l-y appalled by the mere suggestion of justifiable r*** in the real world. Here I was, perhaps the most anti-r*** member the HongFire community will ever know, and here I was with my gigs upon gigs of r*** hentai.

Moments after TSR's post had sunk in, I quit arguing with soran and Sphie. Not because I had a change of heart about loli: I still vehemently dislike it! But because I'd had a big change of heart about the likelihood that soran, an otherwise intelligent and civil fellow, had been lying to me when he told me that he liked loli but abhorred CP and wanted real-life pedophiles to be punished under the law should they so much as lay a finger on a child in an inappropriate manner. I may not have liked loli, but I was now able to buy his argument: "I'm a lolikon, but I'm not a pedo."[/hide]So you see, I find myself now in a very similar position with futanari.

Point No.1: I don't think futanari is immoral. [hide]The argument for illegalizing futanari would be very much like the argument for illegalizing cubism paintings done by Picasso. I dislike Picasso's work because I find it unattractive, not because I find it morally offensive. And that's no reason to illegalize it! Exact same sentiment with futa.[/hide]Point No.2: I don't see the appeal. [hide]I'll spit it out: I think the only way you could like futa is if you like women and if you like dicks. I know that sounds like I'm saying 1 + 1 probably equals 2 and you're laughing at me right now, so just let me say ... I don't get why you like dicks. 'Cause I don't. I just don't understand. A, I don't want to understand, no offense. ^^; But B, I just can't relate. You like them. And I think they're gross.[/hide]Point No.3: I don't think a straight man would like futanari.[hide] This is because I don't think a straight man would be sexually aroused by penises. Women, yes. Men without penises, no. Women with penises, also no.[/hide]
My Request For You: please write a polite, clearly-worded essay which addresses the claim below. [hide]Please explain whether you are in agreement with the claim or in disagreement with it. And please: do NOT reply unless you like futanari! As a fail-safe, please state that you like futanari when you make your post. I will assume that any posts without that statement in them are spam or flame war-seeking trolls and will ask the mods to delete them. So please, please be sure to include that declaration somewhere in your reply! [/hide]
The Claim: "If a man likes futanari, he is not heterosexual."

Minimum word count: 200 words.
Maximum word count: 2000 words.
Structure of essay: a brief introduction with a thesis statement, a minimum of 2 arguments (for, against, or a mixture of both if you are on the fence), and a conclusion.

Other specifications:

Please do not make up statistics. [hide]If you want to use statistics to prove your point, then they must come from an actual resource. (For example, if you claim that the average futa fan has had sex with 4.2 women and 0.7 men, I'd like to see the evidence.)[/hide]
Please do not launch personal insults directed towards me or other people who dislike futanari.[hide] Please do not take my view as a personal attack. I have many friends online, and I probably have friends in real life and I just don't know it, who like futanari. I have even given some of my online friends stories which were excellent stories to me except for the futa element and which for the friends who received these files were like pure gold. Saying I dislike futa doesn't mean I dislike you anymore than saying I dislike your favorite anime or your favorite clothing article means I dislike you.[/hide]
Please do not drag this thread off-topic. [hide]Specifically, I do not wish to see a single soul trying to bring up a loli debate. Do it on your own time in your own thread. I only shared that story with you to try and give you an example of my sincerity to learn from you, the futanari fan, why it is that I am wrong for believing that people who like futa are either gay or bi. If anything I said about TSR, soran, or Sphie has upset you or made you suspect me, please save it for a PM or a different thread. Thank you.[/hide]

And last, but certainly not least, my reason for asking you for this tedious favor: my opening statement. I told you that I have a friend who dislikes futa. He recently mentioned how anyone who likes futa is gay. I told him (out of respect for my futa-loving friends) that I don't think that everyone who likes it is gay. I told him this only because many of you have insisted to me that it is true, and not because I actually disagreed with him. Truthfully, I do fail to see how you wouldn't be gay or bi if you've got a thing for girls with penises. Then came the problem: my friend said, "Oh? Explain." And I couldn't explain. Because I honestly don't know why you wouldn't be gay if you liked futa. So he said, "See? You got nothing. If a guy likes futa, he's gay." And that was the end of the argument.

It's not about winning an argument, but about trying to do you guys right in the real world when this shit comes up in discussions. I would like to know what your arguments are in defense of liking futa but being straight men. I would also like to know from those of you who are gay or bisexual fans of futanari why you like it, and to what extent you respect or disrespect the other fans' claims of being straight.

Thank you for taking the time to read this. And thank you in advance to the kind people who volunteer some of their time from their busy lives to write up a quick, short essay (between 200 and 2000 words) explaining why what I claimed is true or false. :bow-pray:

 

[xeruel]

Okay.......First of all, I'm a FUTA FANS and I'm not Gay nor Bi just a simple straight guy

So I'm gonna open a basic question for those who hate penisses....Do you hate your own penis ??? then 2nd one... would you watch Hentai/porn if there a penis ??? for what its worth I disliked the Sex (male) not the "thing" so the idea of man X man (gay) disgusted me the same as the rest of you "straight guys", so you see its the original SEX that concerns me (a Shemale and a Futa greatly differentiates for me, you can argue the term later), 3rd question... Do you guys have a boner seeing a guy ejaculates into a girl with their so called "penis" ???

now here's my argument for liking Futa, I like them because the fact originally they were FEMALE in the first place with that in mind its already arousing, Actually its the BIG POINT in Futa's
2nd argument : when the women reach orgasm in sheer ecstasy (eyes rolling,etc) using that "thing" really gives deep impression because I know what its like and know the whole process eventhough I also like the pure women orgasm but it kinda gives that a bit is missing because we will never know the feel and the process.
3rd argument : its cute when they react to the stimulation, the confusion for first timer futa or the different feeling for both organ gives interesting expression (for original futa)

Conclusion : they gives the best of both organ with A true woman's expression because they originally are.

 

[Sakunyuusha]

For those who hate penises: do you hate your own penis?

I think feet are disgusting to look at, but I do not hate my feet. I do not hate walking. I do not hate the concept behind feet. I simply dislike looking at people's feet.

I make the comparison because I wish to establish that I don't dislike penises because they're special nor because they simply are penises. I dislike penises along with some, but few, other parts of the human body because of particular reasons.

I cannot do this, but if a man can, I would say this: sucking on his own dick is not homosexual behavior, but if he intentionally ejaculates inside of his own mouth, that to me would suggest that he is homosexual. Frequent and intentional consumption of semen, even exclusively one's own semen, also would strike me as homosexual. To me, it's like this:

taking a dump on one's own face : somebody else taking a dump on your face ::
sucking yourself off and ejaculating in your own mouth : sucking another man off and him cumming inside of your mouth

To me, it's NOT like this:

using your hand to masturbate and cumming on a tissue : a man using his hand to masturbate your dick and have you then cum on a tissue he's holding out for you ::
sucking yourself off and ejaculating in your own mouth : sucking another man off and him cumming inside of your mouth

I think the immediately-above comparison is a false analogy. My brain reads those words and accuses the writer of misusing the :'s and ::'s of written analogies. But I read the analogy above that one and agree with it. "There's no significant difference between whether I shit on my own face or you shit on my face: either way somebody shitted on my face, and to me that's fucking disgusting." Similarly, "There's no significant difference between me swallowing a tablespoon of my own semen and swallowing a tablespoon of somebody else's semen: semen is semen, swallowing is swallowing, and if I do it frequently and deliberately than that means I'm gay or bisexual." That'd be my mentality, in a nutshell.

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Would you watch hentai/porn if there was a penis?

Of course I would. Of course I do. But it doesn't mean I like that it's there. And I never focus on it. My eyes always focus on the woman's eyes, mouth, breasts, legs, tummy, buttocks, vagina. You name it, you got it: my eyes are on her. Obviously my retinas see photons from the monitor that trace out the image of a big sweaty ejaculating dick, but somewhere in my brain that becomes "fuzzed out" sort of like how your side-vision looks when you focus on whatever's dead ahead of you. You still see out of the sides of yours, sort of, but everything's hazy and you can't really make anything out. I guess it's the same for me with the penises. And it's probably one reason I never care very much about censor strips: because if the Japanese don't censor it, my brain will. XD

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so you see its the original SEX that concerns me (a Shemale and a Futa greatly differentiates for me, you can argue the term later)

Looooooooooooooooong tangent! Don't even bother to read it unless you really want to. @_@ I spent so much time writing it I don't have the heart to delete it. >_<[hide]
What do you think about a boy who becomes a futanari female? (She has a vagina, breasts, a feminine voice, wears girls' clothing, and even her personality has become a little more feminine. But she was originally a boy before the accident/curse/spell/whatever transformed her and now she's a futa.)

What do you think about a boy who becomes a complete girl? (See above, but remove the dick. Or see my current sig for some good examples.)

What do you think about a girl who is turned into "boys with breasts" boy? In other words, she started off as a girl. No penis, no Y chromosome, none of that. Then something happens, and now she's a boy ... but she has boobs. She used to be a girl. She stills acts like a girl in some ways. But she dresses like a boy and has a boy's shoulders, muscle tone, deeper voice, etc.

Finally, what do you think about a girl who physically becomes 100% male in body (yes penis, no vagina, no boobs) but remains 100% female in personality (likes to gossip, uses nail polish, likes to shop, loves Oprah, loves romance, etc. etc., the offensively-stereotypical girl lol). In other words ... if you didn't know he was originally a girl, you'd think he was the world's most effeminate gay man. Which reminds me! This girl-turned-guy still is sexually attracted to men and sexually repulsed by women. She doesn't think boobs are a big deal. She doesn't care much for vaginas. She definitely wouldn't want to lick one! But she's turned on by penises just like she was when she was a girl, and given the chance would gladly suck her boyfriend's.

For each of those four scenarios, do you call the final product a male or a female? gay or straight? and would you say you find it erotic or dyserotic?

Personally?

Boy who became a futa female = Woulda been perfect were it not for that damn penis. If she's having sex just with guys, then nothing's changed sexuality-wise: she's still straight as an arrow. I'd say I think of her as a girl. She's just a girl ... with a dick in addition to her vagina.

Boy who became a female = Fantastic. I'd say she is really a girl now. I'd say she's a lesbian if she still likes girls and I'd say she's straight if she now likes boys. Even if she started life as a boy, I'd think of her as a girl now.

Girl who becomes a male with breasts = BLEGH. X_X I don't like guys with boobs and I don't like girls who become guys with boobs. Not my bag. As for the final gender, I'd say male. If you're telling me "it's a boy with boobs," then I believe you that it's a boy now and I don't care what he might have originally been. Only thing that would change my mind is if he behaved a lot like a girl, in which case I'd question your whole "girl who turned into a boy with boobs" theory and would probably suspect that it's just your typical story where a girl becomes a futanari. For me, it's pretty hard to convince me that the character is "a dude with boobs" unless it says so write there in writing in the story and we've never seen him be a girl before. If he started off as a girl? I'm probably always going to consider him a female futa.

Girl who becomes 100% male in body but stays 100% girly in personality = I don't find this erotic either. I'd say the person is a male, even if the personality is girly, but I would stipulate that she's "a female trapped in a male's body" and I would probably even call her "her" instead of "him." It's sort of like Nuriko in the anime Fushigi Yuugi. I love Nuriko! One of my all-time favorite characters in 1990s anime! But I wouldn't want to see hentai with Nuriko in it. Because I perceive Nuriko as being "a woman trapped in a man's body, but still ultimately a male," and thus Nuriko x [another man] to me would be yaoi and not straight sex.[/hide]

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When the women reach orgasm in sheer ecstasy (eyes rolling,etc) using that "thing" really gives deep impression because I know what its like and know the whole process even though I also like the pure women orgasm but it kinda gives that a bit is missing because we will never know the feel and the process.

Okay, but ... I'm confused about a few things. If a woman loses her clit and it becomes a dick, doesn't that mean that she can't experience sexual pleasure as much as she used to? And if she doesn't ejaculate until she tells her boyfriend that she's reached her personal vaginal climax, wouldn't that demystify the G-spot for you? Wouldn't it suggest "a woman's G-spot orgasm is about the same level as when you ejaculate?" And if you don't agree that they're the same level, then wouldn't that mean that futanari stories would be frustratingly illogical to you? Because of how they show women not ejaculating until the eyes-rolled-up-in-the-socket point?

Your explanation about needing common ground to relate to in order to appreciate the female point of orgasm is understandable ... but not relatable. ^^; In other words, I get it but I don't get it. ^^; Or better yet, I understand what you are telling me, but I do not share in your need for a penis to indicate to me when and to what degree the woman is experiencing a combo-breaking orgasm of epic proportions. I think that can already be appreciated by eyes rolling up, body twitching, speaking incoherently (like her D's become R's and her T's become H's, like やめへほうらい in place of 止めてちょうだい), and other cues. Not arguing with you, btw! ^^; More like ... trying to explain where I come from, and meet you at even ground. Trying to understand you, and explaining myself to help you understand me too.

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The other stuff you wrote explaining why you like futa ... again, English-wise I can understand it just fine, but I can't relate to it. I think it's cute to see how boys react when they've become girls, but I don't think it's cute at all to see how girls react when they become boys or become futas.

I think a huge difference in mentality between us is the importance we place on the Past versus the Present! I notice that you put a lot of emphasis on whether the person was originally a girl or not. "If they were originally a boy, bleh. If they were originally a girl who then became a dickgirl, sweet." To me, I have the opposite mentality. I care more about their body and their brain at this moment, now, right here and right now as she's fucking another guy. If the person right now has the brain and body of a girl, I like it whether or not they've always been a girl or recently were transformed into one. If the person used to be a girl, to me it doesn't make much difference: pegging is still pegging, a guy sucking a dick is still a guy sucking a dick (even if it's his girlfriend's dick), and penises period are very very masculine to me.

Maybe that's part of it, too. You and I seem to attach masculinity to the human body differently. I perceive the penis as a very masculine organ. You seem to perceive the penis as a gender-neutral organ that just happens to be on males in the real world but in the fantasy world could just as easily be part of the female anatomy. Am I correct? If so, and if other futa fans agree with you, that could be a very key element to the futa fanship: that perhaps those men who are heterosexual and also fans of futanari do not perceive penises as strictly male parts of the body. To straight futa fans, perhaps penises are like fingers. Whereas to me penises are for guys what vaginas and big, lactating breasts are for women. I love lactating women but am disgusted by lactating men. Maybe you're telling me that for you and penises it'd be similar to a guy who likes lactation period and doesn't care whether it's a girl who is lactating or a guy who is lactating.

Hmm ...

 

[HENTAIBEN]

First, let me say that I am indeed a fan of futanari. Secondly I apologize in advance Sakun. I don't think I'm going to prove to be very useful here. However I was instantly grabbed by your topic and felt the need to share my opinion on the matter. Based on my personal taste, and my inability to form a solid argument - I seriously doubt I'm going to be able to convince you of anything other than the fact that I am a fairly odd person, or at least have odd taste. Still, you might find it interesting none the less, so here we go:

Disclaimer - I have weird taste: I don't think of myself as a homosexual, or even bi really. Well I can't be too sure about that last one. See, there are two things I like that would lead you to believe I was at least Bi.

One: I like penises. Like - a lot. This shouldn't come as too much of a shock. What's my favorite thing I'm always raving about on these boards? Gangbangs. What do you see a lot of in Gangbangs? Dicks. Lots, and lots of dicks. I also happen to dislike Yuri if you've noiticed. Why? Mainly due to a lack of dick. I find two girls rubbing against each other or eating each other out kind of boring. I need penetration. In situations where there have to be two girls, I'd like it to involve futanari. And no, Strap-ons don't really do it for me either. I also like well drawn cocks, I admire them. I also like to draw dicks (but honestly, isn't that an obsession many males have? For some reason you can't pick up a pencil or pen without wanting to doodle a dong? I *know* I'm not the only one that feels that way, but that's more of a funny aside). I can't really explain to you what my obsession is with the penis, but I clearly have one.

Two: Um... well. I guess I kind of like boys? Let me explain. I like traps, you know - boys dressed as girls who pretty much look just like girls but happen to be boys. I'm looking at you Bridget. Yes, I like those. Even after I'm aware that they are in fact male. If anything this makes me come across as more gay than liking futanari I'd think. Bringing this up makes my whole "argument" much more complicated, but I felt I should share this with you so you could better judge if you should even consider me as being straight or not. Also this is a fairly new fetish of mine that I am somewhat hesitant to admit, so please don't give me a hard time about it.

*Semi Off-Topic Tangent Alert* Am I really bi or gay though? I dunno. Well, I'm certainly not gay. I still love women, the key to every gangbang after all is the girl getting slammed. Am I bi though? Maybe. But consider this - I don't really want to be with a man, and certainly not a boy for that matter. This kind of goes back to your original example of people liking Loli but certainly not wanting to have sex with a child. I like little boys dressed as girls, and I like straight shota. But I don't want to have sex with real little boys, dressed as girls or otherwise. Would I have sex with a real life futa though? More on that in a bit.

With that said, I feel like I can finally get things back on topic and talk more about futanari.

Futanari and Me:

Do I like futanari?: Yes, I already stated that I did.

Why do I like it?: I already touched on this briefly, but I'm not even really sure why I like it so much. If I had to pick why, I'd say it's because of the penetration. Pretty simple answer there. Further speculation: I like the body part. If it's on a woman, great!

Do I think it's gay to like it? : This is where admitting to liking little boys kind of makes anything I say here pointless, but I'll give it a shot. No, I don't think it makes you gay. I think it's possible to like the aspects of the penis without liking men. Straight sex usually involves a man penetrating a woman. Many people find this pleasant to look at. That doesn't make the gay, I don't think. Now Imagine a Woman being able to perform that same penetration on another woman. I think it's equally stimulating if not more so. And the fact that it's two women, cuts the whole guy out of the equation, making looking at it even less gay if you think about it (I guess?) However that only covers women having sex with other women. What about a futanari by herself? Or a futanari with a guy? Things get more complicated.

Consider the girl by herself. She could be jerking that cock and that would appeal to most futanari fans though. However I'm not so sure many futanari fans would like to watch a guy jerk himself off - I wouldn't. So what's the difference? I guess it's because it's a girl? This kind of falls in with what xeruel likes about futanari (at least, how Sakun assumed he likes it) by that I mean - it was originally a girl. Regardless of the fact that she has a dick now or not.

Now when it comes to girls doing guys, or at least guys doing a girl with a dick. Hell, I don't even know what to say about that. All I know is that I watched those scenes in Discode and fapped to it all the same. Again, I guess the important thing here is that it's a girl, despite the dick.

At this point I think I'm just reiterating what we already established after xeruel's reply. So I'll stop. After all I still don't have a solid answer as to why liking a girl with a dick isn't gay. So I'm not really doing much but wasting your time here. Moving on then...

Would I have sex with a real futanari?: This is kind of bonus material here. But... there's this girl I like a lot, and in fact she acts more like a guy than a girl half the time. That's not important though - what is important is that she wishes she had a dick, like your typical futanari. If that were the case would I still have sex with her? Well yeah, I would. Does that make me gay? I dunno, you tell me. According to Sakun - sucking a dick is still sucking a dick. While that may be true, I think it's quite a bit different than sucking a guy off. That could just be me though.

Bonus: Sakun's Girl to Guy, Guy to Girl questions:

What do you think about a boy who becomes a futanari female? Despite the fact that it was a boy before, it's a girl now. I'm down with that. And I clearly don't have a problem with her being a futa.

What do you think about a boy who becomes a complete girl? Despite my support of futanari, I think I prefer this more. Yeah, it kind of goes against my whole Girl + Cock = Great formula, but if she's going to get banged by dudes there's my penetration. Works for me. If she's not, and she's going to stick to solely liking girls, then yeah a cock would help.

What do you think about a girl who is turned into "boys with breasts" boy? This kind of reminds me of "cunt boy" which I'm not cool with oddly enough. Yeah I said I like little boys dressed up as girls, and yeah you didn't say anything about them having a vagina, but it still has that same vibe to it. So, no I don't like that because it seems freakish to me (and yet I have no problems with a girl having a dick. Futanari fans make no sense, I guess.)


What do you think about a girl who physically becomes 100% male in body? Um... well that depends I guess. Does it still look like a girl, and dresses like a girl, but just has boy body parts? Well I think we've already established that I would like that if that's the case. If it was a girl that turned male and looked like a guy? No, I wouldn't like that.

Conclusion: I like dicks. Sakun doesn't. At least, that seems to be your biggest hang up. If you go as far as to kind of "block it out" even when looking at straight sex, I think it's pretty clear why you don't like futa. Oh wait - the whole point of this topic wasn't "Why Sakun doesn't like Futa?" was it?... In that case going back to why I like futa... I like dicks. But I also happen to really like chicks. So chicks with dicks, what a winning combination for me. Wait, wait, wait... the topic wasn't really "Why do you like futanari?" either was it? The real question then is - Does liking futanari make you gay? In which case... I have no answer! Woo! I totally just wasted everyone's time. Thanks for playing. (Seriously though, No I don't think it's gay. I listed a few examples of why I didn't think it was gay above, but beyond that I can't come up with a good argument WHY it isn't. So again, in the end still kind of a waste of time. Sorry!)

P.S.: I said "dick" a lot. Also - 1634 words. Cuttin it close.

 

[Sakunyuusha]

Gay? No way. Bi? Maybe, but I actually do agree with you whenever you point out, "Look, I may like traps in hentai, but I wouldn't like them in real life, so I don't think I'm bi for that reason."

It's interesting that you point out your love for the penis and, like xeruel, your gender-neutral view of it. You enjoy what it is -- a big, thick, penetrating rod of meat -- without attributing a fixed gender to it. To you, the penis is attractive not because it's masculine. And it's not attractive to you in spite of being masculine either! Because of, in spite of ... neither applies: you like the penis for what it is/does regardless of who it's attached to. And you're absolutely correct that to me that's unpalatable.

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While sort of off-topic, I'm game to discuss your penetration fetish. I'll be brief: I don't really share in it. The cels in comics where the girl first gets penetrated don't really do it for me. What does it for me is when the girl is shown squirming/convulsing in pleasure around the penis. Like .........
- (in a doggy-style sex scene) her hips are thrusting towards the guy's hips, her butt cheeks smushing up against his lower abdomen, and in between moans she says out loud "Why? M-my hips ... they won't stop moving!" That to me is erotic. That cute, sexy confusion where the carnal body is awakened and the mind is still playing catch-up.

- a girl shouts at a guy, "Pull out!" but the guy says something along the lines of "lol, I would if I could but you're the one who's clamping down on me so tight I can't get out!" In other words, cels where the artist is depicting the girl saying one thing but her body saying quite another.

As you can see, these examples of "penetration" hardly focus on the dick at all. XD In fact, they were both good examples of mind/body disagreement during sexual intercourse on the woman's part and had very little to do with the penis.

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While not to the same degree, we both like gangbang scenes in hentai. For me, it depends on a lot of factors, so on a scale of -10 to 0 to positive 10, 0 being neutral, -10 being unconditional hate, and +10 being unconditional love, I guess I'd say I'm a +2 or a +3 while you strike me more as a +7 to +8.

For me, what's arousing about three guys fucking a girl all at once is that she's experiencing full intercourse from every sexual orifice of her body: her vagina, her anus, and her mouth. It gets back to the whole セックスに病みつく fetish of mine, or "girls who become addicted to sex." Maybe a better way to describe it would be 肉奴隷 (nikudorei), the word for sex slaves in hentai comics. It literally means "meat slave", where 肉 (niku, meat) is used in sexual conversations a lot to mean what in English we say with the words "carnal" or "flesh," e.g. "the pleasures of the flesh" or "carnal ecstasy." Anyway, linguistics on hold for just a sec ^^; ... I love hentai where this happens:
1- Normal girl.
2- Guys abduct her.
3- Guy #1 makes her suck him off. She dislikes it.
4- Guy #1 or #2 takes her vaginal virginity. She's begging him to stop.
5- A few minutes later, she's still begging them to let her go, but the guys comment that her body is the one doing most of the work
6- A few minutes after that, her mind cracks, and she realizes that she is enjoying it, and it feels so so good, etc.
7- After the dude who had been fucking her tires, she invites one of the other guys to give it a try. "Well aren't you a slut?" "Tee-hee~ ^-^"
8- She invites another dude to do her up the butt at the same time. Or maybe that guy surprises her but she discovers she loves it.
9- Fast forward to the end of the comic. She's a dedicated sex slave. (See attachment for good, clean example.)

All the focus is on the woman and on her mind as much as her body. While technically she's being penetrated in the vagina, the anus, and the mouth by three different penises, I don't really focus on that very much. To me, the penis is a means to an end. But to you, the penis seems to be the end itself. Similarly, to me penetration is just a "plot device" (if you will) that navigates us from Spot A to Spot B in the story. But to you, penetration appears to be one of the major attractions. Like ...

Here's a good crazy analogy! ^_^; Let's say we're on a road trip to a theme park, okay?
- to me, penetration is the car we're driving in. Yeah, I see it. Yeah, it's necessary. But it's not the theme park. It's just getting us there.
- to you, it seems to me, penetration is the major attraction at the theme park. No way is it the car! It's the 60-foot-tall roller coaster or whatever other attraction the theme park has that you're excited about.

So it's funny, then, that we both like gangbangs but for completely different reasons. XD For you, it's the triple penetration. For me, it's the total immersion in fucking, which necessarily requires that she be being fucked from all three ends. I love to see girls drowning in the pleasures of sex, and you love penetration. Two totally different desires which oddly enough lead to the same genre in the vast majority of cases. lol

This also explains our difference of opinion on some hentai animes! I recall some times where there were gangbang scenes but the woman was not enjoying it and I disliked them. You shyly said that you liked the gangbang scene a lot because it was a well-drawn gangbang scene and it didn't totally kill it for you that she didn't seem to enjoy it. I forget which anime it was, but then there were future examples where you and I had peculiar agreements and disagreements over the same subject material. Now it makes sense, I think: what you take from penetration and what I take from it are two totally different things. I'm more of a "the orgasm inside the mind" kind of guy and you're more of a "look at the big, thick dick penetrating her!" kind of guy.

 

[Sakunyuusha]

Oops. I forgot pictures. Okay, I'll upload the stories and provide explanations of what's inside each rar.

Part 1 = Jingrock story and Distance story (goes with Edit01 and Edit02)
Part 2 = Onomesin story, all three Edit pictures, and some brief notes for all three stories (goes with Edit03)

 

[HENTAIBEN]

Damn, I'm glad you were able to salvage something out of my rant. Shit, I think you even just helped me realize why I like these things so much. I'm still kind of shocked after reading that lol. Unfortunately there's not too much more I can think of to add to the conversation at this point in time. And sorry, seems like I might've derailed the discussion about futanari a bit. Anxious to see some more input on this topic.

P.S.: Thanks for the examples!

 

[xeruel]

Boy who became a futa female = as long there's a pussy and the final form is a "she"
Boy who became a female = great no problem with that !
Girl who becomes a male with breasts = no thanks, new half isn't my cup of tea, male with breast and balls is the kind I want to avoid most
Girl who becomes 100% male in body but stays 100% girly in personality = Sorry I don't like male whatever the circumstances are....

so I'm a selfish one, as long the original or results is a girl (with pussy and girl personality) I'm okay. however anything with results being a boy, a boy with breast, a Futa male (male personality dominant even if it got pussy) are going to be instantly avoided.

"I love lactating women but am disgusted by lactating men. Maybe you're telling me that for you and penises it'd be similar to a guy who likes lactation period and doesn't care whether it's a girl who is lactating or a guy who is lactating."

holy shit sakun, I didn't even know men can lactate and for the record I don't want ever to see a man lactate :murder:, but this analogy is wrong atleast for me to my POV of dick, So I don't care if a guy cums or a futa cums using his/her dick but where it directed to is a great concern for me ! ex : to girls its okay, to futa girls its great, to boys sorry NO ! to anything with male sex being dominant, again... NO !

Some of Ben's quoting with my POV :

"Now when it comes to girls doing guys, or at least guys doing a girl with a dick."
Usually I only watched the futa girl x girl or futa girl x futa girl, now that scene in discode where the futa girl having sex with a boy leaves me a mixed feeling....... I can't even describe it because it feels very weird and disgusting when the guy holding the girls dick kinda like "I love it but I hate it" feeling for me. I definitely don't want to see a futa girl doing a boy with her dick thats my limit in Futa fetish

"I also happen to dislike Yuri if you've noticed. Why? Mainly due to a lack of dick.I find two girls rubbing against each other or eating each other out kind of boring. I need penetration" Totally agree with ben on this one

If someone interested in MALE FUTA maybe you can try searching for "Dulce Report", I was delighted at first seeing a futa label on it but after several pages I found out the original sex was a Male and became a Futa male will forever haunt me that the futa actually a GUY(still has male personality), and nope I deleted it from my HDD along time ago

 

[Sakunyuusha]

It is highly unusual for men to lactate under normal circumstances. Most cases of male lactation are observed alongside gynecomastia (men who develop characteristically-female boobs), but not the other way around, i.e. just because a guy has gynecomastia doesn't mean he can or is presently lactating.

I only know about it (a) because of medical school and (b) because you meet all sorts of people on the kinkier side of the Internet and I've run into one or two people who have been interested in male nursing. I've never seen a picture of it (irl or in hentai) and I don't care to. The thought simply grosses me out. Enormously.

But my point then to you is ... imagine how much you just got disgusted by that visual. "A man with lactating boobs? EW! GROSS!" Imagine that feeling, okay? Imagine that I feel the same way about men with lactating boobs, too. But now also imagine that I feel the same way about girls with dicks. That's a good way for you to remember. I mean, I'm not nearly as grossed out by futa as I would be by that. Futa ranks pretty low on my gross-out list. Hell, some of my favorite stories of all time even have futa in them! But to me, those stories are amazing in spite of the futanari and in no part thanks to it. (A good example is that one I frequently mention, 呪縛 Jubaku, or "Curse," by inoino in which Shiori the miko is transformed into Shion the succubus. That story prominently features futanari on nearly every single page!) There's no way I could say the same thing for a story which had lactating men in it! LOL But you still should get the picture: to me, "girls with dicks" is not a pleasant thought, and I think any good story would be made a little better if it had the futa taken out of it. You of course may sometimes, if not always, disagree.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

About your answers to the questions I wrote after your first reply ... okay, I think I have a better idea now of what you like. It sounds like you differ from Ben in that Ben's really gung-ho about the penis. You like it too, but for you specifically it has to be one of these two scenarios:
(a) a boy is fucking a girl with his dick, or
(b) a futa girl is fucking another girl with her dick

If it's boy x boy, you dislike it, and if it's a masculine futa (who is a girl but is like a tomboy with short cut hair, captain of the soccer team, talks like a boy, etc) or if it's a boy with a vagina and boobs (who is a boy, started off life as a boy, has boy interests, but one day drinks a potion that gives him boobs and a vagina while letting him keep his penis and his brain), then you do not like it. That would definitely be in keeping with you not being gay or bi, since if you were either of these there should be no reason for you to not like these sorts of characters in hentai.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's a question out of curiosity ...
Many people who like r*** hentai are against real-world r***. Many people who like loli hentai are against real-world pedophilia. That's one end of the spectrum.

Many people who like lactation hentai are all for real-world lactation. Many people who like debu (chubby girls) hentai are all for real-world chubby girls. Many people who like BDSM hentai are all for real-world BDSM. That's the other end of the spectrum.

How would you describe (a) yourself and (b) most other futanari fans you have met (two separate questions!! two separate answers!!) when it comes to the question of falling in love with a woman in the real world only to discover later on down the road that she is a dickgirl? Assume, for sake of argument, that she has the fictitious combination of a 6-inch-or-longer penis capable of ejaculating and she also has the 3-inch-or-deeper vagina with all the normal vaginal muscle tension and juice secretion, etc. Assume that she lets you find out she is a dickgirl in whatever manner you find most suitable (e.g. spur of the moment, over dinner, first night in bed together, etc). And, if it matters to you, assume (for sake of argument) that she is capable of being impregnated by you and of bringing your baby to term (i.e. 9 months + successful delivery).

I've always assumed that futanari fans would fit into the second category, i.e. they would love it if it were possible to meet a woman in the real world who was gorgeous and "their perfect woman" in every way and then to top it off they found out one day her embarrassing (to her) secret -- she's a dickgirl! But I'm beginning to have my doubts now.

 

[elgringo14]

I'm not a futa fan, but it's good for a change.

I can tolerate futanari, if the girl has a "thing" that looks more like a giant clitoris. So it's almost realistic (rofl).
And for sure no "balls", which is a big turn off :defeat:

For anime, stuff like Parade Parade or La Blue Girl are perfect in that sense.

For manga/doujin, I like the works of Hinemosunotari (ひねもすのたり):

http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2008/05/18/hinemosunotari/
http://doujinshi.mugimugi.org/index.php?P=LIST&T=author&ID=1199&S=1&AGREE=YES

His official webpage is down apparently.

 

[redrooster]

I´m a futa fan, I even like it more than any other genre, I´m not gay too...

Dammit, how can I read all these guinness book of records extra long posts in this short delay...

It will keep me days to work through all these new threads and post. You are mean, aren´t you...

 

[X-Death]

I'm a FUTA fan too but I'm not a Gay or Bi. I like it cuz I'm a YURI fan too, seeing both woman in a different perspective is nice. So I think people who like lesbian theme are into FUTA too..

its like this; Straight is good but Yuri is better then Futa is best LOL

Anyway some people think of FUTA is Gay cuz they always coined it in "SHEMALE", a real man that has a boobs and balls...

and also cuz they are not that open minded person but if you think that way then i guess you can swing both side.. I guess your a BISEXUAL person LOL


But still i think this is still based on their own fetishes ^^

If you think FUTA is gay cuz there is a dick attach on a women body cuz no man like seeing the penis or arouse on it then what about the fellatio?? Its always focus on a penis...

One thing about the Lolicon, isn't always need to be coined to Pedo it can also be coined to Petite...

There's a lot of things involve on something so I guess it really hard to pinpoint what is the exact reason behind those..

 

[HENTAIBEN]

I just noticed this and wanted to give Sakun shit for it, because I thought it was funny. Of course I'm not being serious in anyway, and of course I understand the difference between these "request" :XD:

/random

 

[Sakunyuusha]

A discussion-request is so very, very different from a "where can I get ... ?" request.

 

[jigenbakuda]

I am a futa fan, I love futanari, but there are certain characteristics of the genre that excite me. First off I read Futanari manga, I don't watch hentai at all... (tried watching it with my girlfriend... I couldn't even cum...). Anyways the 2 things that are great to me are the hyper uber sexuality and the removal of the man.

Now I don't mind dicks, but I hate men. Men lack hips, tits, and butt. Jigen likes hips tits, and butt. So naturally the more in the picture, the happier I am. But the dick is not masuline or feminine to me. Arnold with a fatty pussy would not turn me on... because the pussy is whatever. His body would still be rippling, and I would hate it. Like wise, if jenifer alba had a fat one between her legs, she would still be a sexy bitch. The dick would make her no less sexy... Futanari does this very well by taking the man out of the picture and keeping the dick (sexual activity) in. yuri stuff is generally very soft and very calm, the lake if you will, but futa is like a swirling maelstrom of lust, but have 2 women, but only futas can fuck other girls, not scissor (lmfao) or just kiss.

Also in almost every manga I read, futanari girls are sexually obsessed, like foaming at the mouth because there is not enough sex, like cumming 4 times in a row and still being hard, like being completely controlled by the dick which is the most appealing part of the genre, they are like sex zombies, instead of brains they want pussy. Also when the dick is not hard, its as of they are normal, oh lets not forget the lactating tits cum. I've read some scientist experiment futanari that was so good!

Anyways I'm a manga futanari lover. NOT defending it, or anything, just telling you why I read it. And why its my favorite genre. I actually got into watching shemale porn from this genre. And shemales suck, or are (most of the time) not very pretty, unlike their futanari counterparts. So futanari owns shemale porn on every level.. the two are not comparable in my opinion.

 

[dead_flowerz]

i like futanari. reasons being it is taboo. many humans like and get sexual arousal from taboo things: r***, bondage, bestiality, sadism, chicks with dicks etc.. the reason being is that it is TABOO. a girl shouldnt have a penis so that is what makes it exciting. a girl shouldnt get r***ing so that is what makes it exciting etc. YOU even said you like r*** hentai but would never engage in a act of r***, so some one who likes futanari would probably never want to touch a penis especially if it was a mans. i hope that helped.

 

[butter_bbb]

Almost 12 years later here I am diving into a pool which has probably been deserted by now...

Perhaps I am simply writing this as a self confession type of post rather than continuing on the "discourse" / "debate" which has gone dry all too long ago.

Of course seeing as how my membership here on this thread is only a few month old (due to the fact I am still quite a newbie in terms of the whole JAV multiverse) may also indicate my lack of better understanding the etiquette of answering and expanding upon ideas which have laid dormant on this board for many, many years.

DISCLAIMER: I "recently" discovered I like FUTA stuff, but with my own set of preferences.

Secondary disclaimer: I myself admitted to my own self many, many years ago that I was not straight nor gay and that labels like bi-sexual are just as unimportant as the more recent tags of "non-binary" and other such labels that I feel we, as members of society (and others who also believe they are NOT members of any society) , "need" to use in order to somewhat categorize people, thoughts, and preferences in a way we can easily manage and classify.

That being said I discovered LONG ago (way, way before the internet) that I liked dicks in porn just as much as some of the ladies I would lust after. It wasn't all dicks mind you, but some of them were very "attractive". Simultaneously I also discovered I enjoyed watching plentiful cumshots. So I would imagine that enjoying these would mean that I were gay or at the very least bi-sexual. However I do not enjoy seeing men kissing or licking each other or such, perhaps in a similar way that more (ahem) "straight" porn viewers don't like to see the cocks in the frames of what they are watching.

(this reminds me of one time I spent a weekend over at a long lost friend when I was a late teenager we we tried to watch one of his older brother's porn tapes and he'd "cover" his eyes whenever an asshole, male or female, appeared on screen because he felt that watching a butthole was "gay")

IN ANY CASE, much like JAV, the world of FUTA appeared recently-ish on my radar. I was aware of it over the years seeing all sorts of variants ranging from the "high-class" production companies like Stacy Silver's "Slimewave" series, or those "Fucked Up Facials" episodes which often hired legit american pornstars, to those DIY amateurs who made videos for sale on M a n y V i d s (subsequently leaked on the now dying tube sites like P0rnhub and Xha mster).

What REALLY got me hooked on Futa was actually SOME of the 3-D animations created by folks like Puppetmaster and Smerinka (I think that's his name). And again, as surely you must have gathered by now, I was attracted to those big cocks spewing ginormous amounts of cum ad infinitum more than "chicks with dicks". However that was the appeal as well, because these things are "impossible". I am trying to make this statement as reasonably fairly to understand as it just isn't as easy to convey thoughts into the written format and make it "sound" like something comprehensive.

The "real-live futa" stuff of course is just for "theatrics". It is obvious that these ladies are wearing strap-ons and that someone off camera is pumping stuff to emulate ejaculations, and that it is all done to "play-pretend" and make it look like these ladies have functioning male parts, although realism is thrown out the window the moment the skirts/pants come off and reveal that fake cock between their legs. I do think that this could possibly be done "intentionally" - or at least completelly direguarding the "fourth wall" aesthetic (to borrow an expression) because everyone involved, from the on-screen performers to the viewers at home clearly know we are watching something completelly made-up and "fake", just for the actual viewing experience itself.

Anyway all this blabbing about to say that I have yet to witness any "type" of Futa which does make me feel more "gay" than "straight". Because for myself, my own preference of this type of porn, is seeing these beautiful ladies spewing bucket loads of cum on each other. Mind you that in MOST Futa I have seen, the over-acting by said lady performers more often than not ruins any attempt at creating the illusion that this "could" in fact be "happening". Either it's from the over-the-top verbal abuse and constant screaming about or the way they actually stroke their own cocks to make it look like they are "angrily" ejaculating with too much "violence" in their action.

So apologies if I have offended any real FUTA enthusiasts, because as I said, I myself am not a "real" fan, but rather someone who will catch a glance if either the female cast involved tickles my own fancy, or the ejaculations themselves are treated in a way that isn't like a fire hydrant trying to drown the co-stars.

Cheers!