Life-sized Dolls
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staring dolls, changing places at home, growing hair, cremating dolls...
Now it's getting scary :coldsweat:
Need a :relax-bath: and hope to :sleeping: later
Actually the silicone models are sensitive to heat it seems, big warning saying "no electric blankets" somewhere on their site. When looking into this I came on a website or two and a common comment was the lack of warmth from the dolls. Personally I think this is expecting a bit much from a glorified manikin no matter how lifelike but it is a defect in their realism. There was also something mentioned about having to use oils or lotion on the dolls skin, I'm not exactly sure about that but I did see a comment where someone complained about having to change his sheets all the time because the doll left stains. Creepy, I suppose, the more life like the more upkeep and problems. Still as long as they don't bitch and moan about things and have such a willing and pleasant disposition I can see their appeal.
Just like girls...high maintenance. The guy with the oily sheets should use rubber sheets. A little Mr. Clean and yer ready for another night of cuddling.
Com on, now ...
We've got dolls that move when we're away ... dolls whose hair grows ... dolls that cheat on us ... dolls that leave stains on the sheets (are the stains pink?) ... dolls with spirits ...
This is anthropomorphizing to the extreme. Most of us already consider ourselves a little nuts for getting off on these 2-dimensional girls that we enjoy so much. I think that perhaps taking it into the 3D might be a bit 'over the line'. At least until the technology is much more developed. LOL
Just saying ... imo
We've got dolls that move when we're away ... dolls whose hair grows ... dolls that cheat on us ... dolls that leave stains on the sheets (are the stains pink?) ... dolls with spirits ...
This is anthropomorphizing to the extreme. Most of us already consider ourselves a little nuts for getting off on these 2-dimensional girls that we enjoy so much. I think that perhaps taking it into the 3D might be a bit 'over the line'. At least until the technology is much more developed. LOL
Just saying ... imo
I am an expert on Japanese dolls, and have been selling them for about 10 years...
The dolls you refer to are(well, used to be) special, traditional dolls, not your everyday toy or silicon love doll.
Besides the HINA MATSURI and TANGU NO SEKKU dolls, the Japanese also used a type of doll to protect their children form evil spirits, and were also placed in "sick rooms".
When the doll had absorbed the "sickness" or wasn't wanted anymore...they had a "doll funeral" , "doll farewells" called Ningyo Kuyo
HOWEVER.....in recent years, the tradition has extended to just about any doll or toy effigy. Pooh bears, and Barbies have been offered for the purification rites...
Another example of old traditions continuing in some form in the present.
You are also forgetting the Japanese android dolls that interact with you, have sex, and orgasms!!!
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/oooooh/honey-doll-has-touch-sensors-moans-has-fake-orgasms-288234.php
Ningyo Kuyo 人形供養
http://www.sinritestnavi.com/
http://www.soryuji.jp/ningyou.html
http://home1.catvmics.ne.jp/~daijuji/0_2_ningyou.html
It looks like 人形供養 has become also a big online business.:attention:
http://www.google.co.jp/search?hl=ja&client=opera&rls=ja&hs=XFi&q=人形供養&start=10&sa=N
Yeah, I wonder when the US & European funeral directors will try to capitalize by introducing this concept (and of course, offering their services) to Westerners?
Hypothetical ad:
Has your Baby Alive died?
Has the doll hospital called and said there is no hope?
Don't throw your beloved doll into the trash heap.....
Call Harry's Memorial Funeral Chapel for a quote on the proper send off and memorial for your child's most cherished companion!!!
Reasonable rates!!!
_______________________________________
Actually, it is not so far fetched...
There are coffins being sold on eBay for Barbie dolls!!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/Gothic-Goldtone...in_0?hash=item27aa38994b&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
We have pet cemeteries...why not doll cemeteries?
Hypothetical ad:
Has your Baby Alive died?
Has the doll hospital called and said there is no hope?
Don't throw your beloved doll into the trash heap.....
Call Harry's Memorial Funeral Chapel for a quote on the proper send off and memorial for your child's most cherished companion!!!
Reasonable rates!!!
_______________________________________
Actually, it is not so far fetched...
There are coffins being sold on eBay for Barbie dolls!!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/Gothic-Goldtone...in_0?hash=item27aa38994b&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
We have pet cemeteries...why not doll cemeteries?
I remember reading up on this a lot at one point. The best source of information, imo, is dollforum.com. Lots of pictures, links, and owners sharing experiences and advice on obtaining and maintaining dolls. I usually just visit the Japanese doll forum:
http://www.dollforum.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=17
My favorite doll maker is orient-doll: http://www.orient-doll.com.
Their website is easy to navigate, even if you don't know Japanese. They have a lot of nice pictures of their dolls in many natural positions, including outdoor photos. I just noticed they recently added hair "down there" as a new feature in some of their lines, although their Nano and Pure dolls don't seem to have this (and rightfully so).
As for obtaining these dolls, I have witnessed first hand someone successfully importing a Petite Jewel from Orient Industries to the US through EMS. However, you always run the risk of customs checking the package and notifying authorities for who knows what reason. There is one thread of someone in the UK who had his doll intercepted at customs, his apartment searched by police, and his computers and phone confiscated: http://www.dollforum.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=21078
Regardless, I wouldn't fault anyone for wanting to obtain one of these dolls. They are definitely really cute. But if you do plan to order one, it's better to order the head and body separate, and have them shipped a week apart.
http://www.dollforum.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=17
My favorite doll maker is orient-doll: http://www.orient-doll.com.
Their website is easy to navigate, even if you don't know Japanese. They have a lot of nice pictures of their dolls in many natural positions, including outdoor photos. I just noticed they recently added hair "down there" as a new feature in some of their lines, although their Nano and Pure dolls don't seem to have this (and rightfully so).
As for obtaining these dolls, I have witnessed first hand someone successfully importing a Petite Jewel from Orient Industries to the US through EMS. However, you always run the risk of customs checking the package and notifying authorities for who knows what reason. There is one thread of someone in the UK who had his doll intercepted at customs, his apartment searched by police, and his computers and phone confiscated: http://www.dollforum.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=21078
Regardless, I wouldn't fault anyone for wanting to obtain one of these dolls. They are definitely really cute. But if you do plan to order one, it's better to order the head and body separate, and have them shipped a week apart.
Someone in the UK who had his doll intercepted at customs, his apartment searched by police, and his computers and phone confiscated
:ban::ban::ban:
But in the USA, I cannot think of ANY law that one would break by importing a doll, just because it is realistic.
If that were the case, if I bought a copy of Michelangelo's DAVID or any other anatomically correct statuary, would I be breaking any laws?
They used marble thousands of years ago because silicon and vinyl were not available...
what the doll is made of cannot make it obscene.
Since even the love dolls have only an orifice in which you must insert an artificial vagina, have that part shipped separately...
The above OP's story is very scary, and shows that now thought crimes is punishable...for what else is it when you make love to a doll? Surely not child abuse!
:ban::ban::ban:
But in the USA, I cannot think of ANY law that one would break by importing a doll, just because it is realistic.
If that were the case, if I bought a copy of Michelangelo's DAVID or any other anatomically correct statuary, would I be breaking any laws?
They used marble thousands of years ago because silicon and vinyl were not available...
what the doll is made of cannot make it obscene.
Since even the love dolls have only an orifice in which you must insert an artificial vagina, have that part shipped separately...
The above OP's story is very scary, and shows that now thought crimes is punishable...for what else is it when you make love to a doll? Surely not child abuse!
Here's the original post from the forum. (I just searched and found it.) Note that it was posted October 1, 2008, so this is almost a year ago.
:ban::ban::ban:
I did a news search, and could find no reference to a man being arrested in the U.K. for anything related to a sex doll. Hopefully this means kevtra was never actually charged with a crime...assuming kevtra's story is true, that is. (After all, all we have is to anonymous posts on a single Internet forum.)
Still, a man in the U.S. pleaded guilty to possession of erotic manga, so anything is possible. :sigh:
Kevtra posted just one brief update, and seems to have never posted again, unless he created a new account under a different name:kevtra said:
:ban::ban::ban:kevtra said:
:ban::ban::ban:
I did a news search, and could find no reference to a man being arrested in the U.K. for anything related to a sex doll. Hopefully this means kevtra was never actually charged with a crime...assuming kevtra's story is true, that is. (After all, all we have is to anonymous posts on a single Internet forum.)
Still, a man in the U.S. pleaded guilty to possession of erotic manga, so anything is possible. :sigh:
Life sized dolls ... again.
Appearently, the first "Life sized dolls" thread was closed, because some people got seriously off topic and had a big stupid flame war.
The original topic was quite amusing, so I am creating this new thread, so we can get back to the topic (without any of the earlier foolishness). I think the last few posts were discussing whether the dolls had a life of their own, and whether they had spirits. (Yes, quite amusing.)
Carry on, fellas.
(Link to first thread.)
Appearently, the first "Life sized dolls" thread was closed, because some people got seriously off topic and had a big stupid flame war.
The original topic was quite amusing, so I am creating this new thread, so we can get back to the topic (without any of the earlier foolishness). I think the last few posts were discussing whether the dolls had a life of their own, and whether they had spirits. (Yes, quite amusing.)
Carry on, fellas.
(Link to first thread.)
First let me apologize for being one of the members involved in closing the thread...
OK..I am sorry!! Gomen Nasai!!
Now that that's over...I want to continue the discussion about whether the U15 or esp. the U12 dolls would be illegal in the USA. (Sorry about not inc. Europe, but they are really weird over there, and I live on the West coast, so who cares about the "old world"?)
As I said prior...I cannot see how anything not real, or not actually doing pornographic things can be deemed illegal.
On the other hand.. there is a current news story about a mom and dad arrested for child porn because they took some pictures of their kids naked (and why not?) in the bath, splashing around.
Someone in Walmart with brains of a slug, notified the police and their kids were taken away, they were branded as sex offenders, before charges were finally dropped after a year....
I know this has nothing to do about dolls, but I just used this as an illustration of how simple-minded and over zealous law enforcement can be. The Supreme Court has upheld time and time again that simple nudity, including children, is not obscene, pornographic, or illegal.
So wouldn't that apply to dolls too?
You can buy life-size realistic dolls of children in the US, but they are not anatomically correct.
Also a child mannequin is technically a doll, and can be made to look pretty realistic.
OK..I am sorry!! Gomen Nasai!!
Now that that's over...I want to continue the discussion about whether the U15 or esp. the U12 dolls would be illegal in the USA. (Sorry about not inc. Europe, but they are really weird over there, and I live on the West coast, so who cares about the "old world"?)
As I said prior...I cannot see how anything not real, or not actually doing pornographic things can be deemed illegal.
On the other hand.. there is a current news story about a mom and dad arrested for child porn because they took some pictures of their kids naked (and why not?) in the bath, splashing around.
Someone in Walmart with brains of a slug, notified the police and their kids were taken away, they were branded as sex offenders, before charges were finally dropped after a year....
I know this has nothing to do about dolls, but I just used this as an illustration of how simple-minded and over zealous law enforcement can be. The Supreme Court has upheld time and time again that simple nudity, including children, is not obscene, pornographic, or illegal.
So wouldn't that apply to dolls too?
You can buy life-size realistic dolls of children in the US, but they are not anatomically correct.
Also a child mannequin is technically a doll, and can be made to look pretty realistic.
I, too, apologize for derailing the earlier thread. Gomen nasai. :bow-pray:
I agree with japonaliya that, on its face, the idea that a sex doll could be deemed not just obscene, but, much more seriously, a form of child pornography would seem to fly in the face of the U.S. Constitution as it has been understood for quite a long time.
The scary thing, though, is that such commonsense no longer applies. The case of Christopher Handley is a sobering reminder of that fact. As many of you probably know, Mr. Handley was arrested when a package of doujinshi (self-published manga) he ordered from Japan was intercepted by postal inspectors. Mr. Handley was charged in Federal Court with violating the notorious "PROTECT" Act. The judge wisely ruled that the most outrageous parts of that Federal law were unconstitutional. But he left standing the portions regarding obscenity, because those portions were simply a restatement of long-standing obscenity laws that followed the famous "Miller Test." (Sorry, too lazy to provide a Wikipedia link.) For reasons that are not entirely clear, but which seem to have involved threats from prosecutors, Mr. Handley pleaded guilty to the charges. (Note that not a single scrap of actual child pornography--photos or images of actual children--were found; the entire case is based solely on the drawn images in the manga.)
Now, since Handley pleaded guilty, this does not make for solid legal precedent (or so I've read). And since he hasn't been sentenced yet, we don't know if he will be convicted of possession of child pornography, or just simple violation of obscenity laws. That is the crucial point, since the former would brand him a "sex offender."
So, setting aside the fact that you would think the authorities would be glad that someone with pedophilic tendencies was home porking his compliant silicon doll, rather than out stalking real children...
...we do have the very disturbing precedent of a man being convicted of the crime of purchasing drawn images of non-existent characters. (Whether or not he gets jail time remains to be seen.)
So, philosophical arguments aside, as a practical matter, I would strongly discourage anyone who lives outside of Japan from ordering a Japanese sex doll, unless it has large breasts, pubic hair, and preferably simulated stretch marks from childbirth. :evillaugh:
Joking aside, assuming the case discussed on the sex doll forum is in fact true, I think it would be a bad idea to "test" the laws of your own country, unless you don't care if family and colleagues find out, and you have a hell of a lot of money to pay lawyers' fees.
Sadly, though, I think part of the motivation of both police and prosecutors is to frighten other people out of testing the limits of the law. Even if the accused is eventually vindicated in court, his life will be left in a shambles. So people are frightened out of exercising their Constitutional rights. :sigh: This is a flaw inherent in a legal system in which police and prosecutors are rewarded for getting convictions, rather than for assuring that justice is served.
As for the question of whether dolls have spirits, as an atheist who doesn't believe in spirits of any kind, the short answer for me is "no." But that doesn't keep me from talking to my computer or my bicycle as if it had some kind of sentience. Anyone who ever had a favorite doll or stuffed animal as a child (or even as a grown-up) "knows" that they take on a personality of their own (in the mind of the owner). In some cases it might be a symptom of some sort of psychological problem, but in the vast majority of cases I would say it's perfectly healthy, and even therapeutic. And if it helps someone find an outlet for desires that cannot be realized legally or ethically with a living person, then you would think society would actually encourage their use. But "society" (in any country) is not renowned for being rational, is it? :dunno:
I agree with japonaliya that, on its face, the idea that a sex doll could be deemed not just obscene, but, much more seriously, a form of child pornography would seem to fly in the face of the U.S. Constitution as it has been understood for quite a long time.
The scary thing, though, is that such commonsense no longer applies. The case of Christopher Handley is a sobering reminder of that fact. As many of you probably know, Mr. Handley was arrested when a package of doujinshi (self-published manga) he ordered from Japan was intercepted by postal inspectors. Mr. Handley was charged in Federal Court with violating the notorious "PROTECT" Act. The judge wisely ruled that the most outrageous parts of that Federal law were unconstitutional. But he left standing the portions regarding obscenity, because those portions were simply a restatement of long-standing obscenity laws that followed the famous "Miller Test." (Sorry, too lazy to provide a Wikipedia link.) For reasons that are not entirely clear, but which seem to have involved threats from prosecutors, Mr. Handley pleaded guilty to the charges. (Note that not a single scrap of actual child pornography--photos or images of actual children--were found; the entire case is based solely on the drawn images in the manga.)
Now, since Handley pleaded guilty, this does not make for solid legal precedent (or so I've read). And since he hasn't been sentenced yet, we don't know if he will be convicted of possession of child pornography, or just simple violation of obscenity laws. That is the crucial point, since the former would brand him a "sex offender."
So, setting aside the fact that you would think the authorities would be glad that someone with pedophilic tendencies was home porking his compliant silicon doll, rather than out stalking real children...
...we do have the very disturbing precedent of a man being convicted of the crime of purchasing drawn images of non-existent characters. (Whether or not he gets jail time remains to be seen.)
So, philosophical arguments aside, as a practical matter, I would strongly discourage anyone who lives outside of Japan from ordering a Japanese sex doll, unless it has large breasts, pubic hair, and preferably simulated stretch marks from childbirth. :evillaugh:
Joking aside, assuming the case discussed on the sex doll forum is in fact true, I think it would be a bad idea to "test" the laws of your own country, unless you don't care if family and colleagues find out, and you have a hell of a lot of money to pay lawyers' fees.
Sadly, though, I think part of the motivation of both police and prosecutors is to frighten other people out of testing the limits of the law. Even if the accused is eventually vindicated in court, his life will be left in a shambles. So people are frightened out of exercising their Constitutional rights. :sigh: This is a flaw inherent in a legal system in which police and prosecutors are rewarded for getting convictions, rather than for assuring that justice is served.
As for the question of whether dolls have spirits, as an atheist who doesn't believe in spirits of any kind, the short answer for me is "no." But that doesn't keep me from talking to my computer or my bicycle as if it had some kind of sentience. Anyone who ever had a favorite doll or stuffed animal as a child (or even as a grown-up) "knows" that they take on a personality of their own (in the mind of the owner). In some cases it might be a symptom of some sort of psychological problem, but in the vast majority of cases I would say it's perfectly healthy, and even therapeutic. And if it helps someone find an outlet for desires that cannot be realized legally or ethically with a living person, then you would think society would actually encourage their use. But "society" (in any country) is not renowned for being rational, is it? :dunno:
I try to make it short: I am not a pedophile and I'm glad that I don't have to suffer from this sexual orientation. I think this type of girls would indeed be "helpful" for pedophiles. Of course it's impossible to say that sex offending pedophiles would not r*** a real child then anymore because he can practice his sexual preference but it is a least possible. And it would definitely help those who don't want to become a sex offender.
To Daredemonai:
I agree with your assessment of the quirky legal system...
I am curious how, and on what grounds the material was considered obscene???
Though there are laws on the books, and the Miller Test in a nutshell says, that there must be some artistic nature, or social redeeming aspect to be considered not obscene.
Considering that for decades now, almost all XXX rated mags, and (adult) videos, which contain almost every conceivable sex act is protected free speech, what does a hand-made comic have that deems it obscene when judged against those standards???
IThere have been some cases about interstate commerce regarding even adult porn, and that local jurisdictions can impose there own local obscenity laws unless they violate the Federal laws, but most of these cases are few and far between...
The case you cited was really weird, and because the the guy plead guilty so fast, one wonders that there wasn't more to the story that wasn't reveled??
My take is they made a deal not to charge him with child porn or as a sex offender. I much rather have an obscenity conviction like Larry Flint, then be branded a pedophile.
To BPX:
I try to make it short: I am not a pedophile
Call yourself what you want, but the pictures at the bottom of your post tell more about you than your words.....
BTW" Being a pedophile and being a child molester are two different things..something a person with an attraction to children should already know.....
I agree with your assessment of the quirky legal system...
I am curious how, and on what grounds the material was considered obscene???
Though there are laws on the books, and the Miller Test in a nutshell says, that there must be some artistic nature, or social redeeming aspect to be considered not obscene.
Considering that for decades now, almost all XXX rated mags, and (adult) videos, which contain almost every conceivable sex act is protected free speech, what does a hand-made comic have that deems it obscene when judged against those standards???
IThere have been some cases about interstate commerce regarding even adult porn, and that local jurisdictions can impose there own local obscenity laws unless they violate the Federal laws, but most of these cases are few and far between...
The case you cited was really weird, and because the the guy plead guilty so fast, one wonders that there wasn't more to the story that wasn't reveled??
My take is they made a deal not to charge him with child porn or as a sex offender. I much rather have an obscenity conviction like Larry Flint, then be branded a pedophile.
To BPX:
I try to make it short: I am not a pedophile
Call yourself what you want, but the pictures at the bottom of your post tell more about you than your words.....
BTW" Being a pedophile and being a child molester are two different things..something a person with an attraction to children should already know.....
That's a tough question. Dolls can help prevent sex crimes or promote them?
The same thing can be asked about CP photos and films, hentai, manga and even stories.
Dolls can serve as a release for some pedos and a spur for others. I would think it's safe to conclude "the doll effect" can't be verified.:evillaugh: