My problem with raep scenes (rant)

[ding73ding]

I want amplify one point, there's something deeply deeply sick and repulsive about some important genres of JAV. A while ago, I learn how to understand this, from (I think) a Japanese youtuber, probably not Nobita, but at least someone like him.

The explanation is that Japanese men suffers a lot of pressure and humiliations in their life, everyday. There's a lot of restrictions how he behaves and what he must say, and a lot of scolding from his seniors (parents, teachers, bosses, and older colleagues 先輩 (senpai). In order to relieve the pressure (if the standard "healthy" method of getting drunk with colleagues is not enough) he would find a weaker target that he could be mean and nasty to, to inflict on the target the same treatment that he got earlier in the day.

This is why in a lot of NTR scenes, the r**ist can take all day doing nasty things to his victim, causing discomfort, embarassment, humiliation and insult BUT doesn't hurry to get himself some pleasure. He may not take his pants off, and his cock may not get very erect. If and when he finally gets to ejeculation, he seems more concerned about using his semen as a contanimation or insult on the woman rather try to have the bestest more awesome orgasm for himself. These are red flags that this is actually not porn, but a torture film made by and for psychopaths.

Yeah I am using very strong words, but also... it's saying something about myself, that I can't always tell the difference between what I love and what I hate. I mean I do like a good S&M/rapey fantasy. Sometimes my red flag spider senses fail and I find myself watching a bad rapey vid, I get annoyed (with myself) and end up with an aborted masturbation.

 

[maelstrom9999]

There's a lot of lost in translation when we watch and discuss NTR titles. The problem is definition of the word r*** is changing and different between peopls and cultures. This is huge oversimplification but I'll do it anyway: I will cut the single word r***/NTR to three different levels:

1. misogynism: the woman does not want the sex and the fucking action is performed against her will, often (but not always) the only purpose of the action is to hurt her, not to satisfy the libido of the r**ist. This is a huge genre of JAV, a very common trope is the use of probes and vibrator on the woman especially in cavity other than vagina. Say, nose hook.

2. No-means-yes: the woman starts with verbal or actions to resists, for some reasons, but the r**ist purpose is to have sexual pleasure and possibily to give her sexual pleasure as well. So after some resistance, she accepts and often enjoy the actual fucking actions. The mildest form can be just a reflex reaction: the woman doesn't mind sex with this man at all, but community expectation dictates she must pretend a bit of resistance, at least until some clothings have been removed. Sometimes she started genuinely not accepting sex but the r**ist's sexual skillz is so amazing that physical orgasm overcome her mental resistance. One of my own fav is IPX-548. Minami also played in this series before, in IPX-358.

3. r***-play: the woman fakes resistance to enhance his and/or her (psychological) excitement. This is not so much common now. But not so long ago, (I hesitate to put down any explicit time, but definitely within our lifetime) the majority of consensual sexual intercourses would look like criminal r*** according to modern western feminist standard. You get a hint from the early history of JAV (VHS era) the only words you ever hear out of the vast majority of JAV girl is やめて yamete (STOP!). Any girl who is fucked without pretending resistance and suffering is automatically labelled a 痴女 slut and (for a JAV girl) close to the end of her career. Cowgirl 騎乗位 back then is almost unimaginable. It's kinda related to too-noisy/fake moaning during sex (another recent thread). Definitely today it's out of fashion.

The problem is NTR is a term used for all types. Covering both the type that I perosnally feel is disgusting, I mean I feel so strong about it, that I think death penalty can be justified. On the other hand, it's a man's most primal instinct, to make as many offsprings as possible, nedge nedge wink wink: determined seduction technique. Of course I am not making broad justification, but leave that many things are rather subjective.

One more point to consider: when DMM/Fanza release their sales and search stats, sometimes they provide break down the data by customer's gender and age group etc. One point that surprised me quite a bit is for female customers NTR ranks either top 1 or 2 in terms of search words (which as I remember genre keywords also compete with idol's names for top rank search word) so it's very remarkable female customers's top genre is NTR which include what I call misogynic r***.

What do you mean by NTR in this context? I thought NTR referred to adultery?

Anyway, I think the reason definitions of "r***" seem to change is that it is both a legal term and one used in a political context. The political definition is culturally influenced and is rather elastic. But legal definitions don't change much.

In a legal sense, r*** means having sex with someone who is not consenting, which in particular means that resistance is overcome either by physical force or threat of physical force. To your comment above, if she starts out non-consenting, then eventually consents, it's still r*** because the crime was complete before she consented, and any consensual sex thereafter is irrelevant.

Sexual blackmail, which is often depicted in JAV, is not r*** under any legal system I know of. Because there is consent. The woman has a choice. Only exception is that in some legal systems it is r*** if a police officer does it, by threatening an arrest and offering sex as an alternative.

Drugging a woman against her consent is only r*** if she is unconscious or to the point of incoherence. But drugging them without consent is a separate crime in most legal systems.

Hypnosis/mind control would likely be r***, if such things actually worked in the real world, which of course they do not.

Lastly, I would mention that the tags used for JAV to identify subject matters often leave off tags like "r***" and "abuse" even when present in the movie. They sometimes leave out other tags as well - the system is not reliable. But r*** is left out more often than any other. If someone is interested in that theme, they can load up the "r***" tag at javlibrary, and then get maybe half the films that actually have r*** in them.

 

[maelstrom9999]

I want amplify one point, there's something deeply deeply sick and repulsive about some important genres of JAV. A while ago, I learn how to understand this, from (I think) a Japanese youtuber, probably not Nobita, but at least someone like him.

The explanation is that Japanese men suffers a lot of pressure and humiliations in their life, everyday. There's a lot of restrictions how he behaves and what he must say, and a lot of scolding from his seniors (parents, teachers, bosses, and older colleagues 先輩 (senpai). In order to relieve the pressure (if the standard "healthy" method of getting drunk with colleagues is not enough) he would find a weaker target that he could be mean and nasty to, to inflict on the target the same treatment that he got earlier in the day.

This is why in a lot of NTR scenes, the r**ist can take all day doing nasty things to his victim, causing discomfort, embarassment, humiliation and insult BUT doesn't hurry to get himself some pleasure. He may not take his pants off, and his cock may not get very erect. If and when he finally gets to ejeculation, he seems more concerned about using his semen as a contanimation or insult on the woman rather try to have the bestest more awesome orgasm for himself. These are red flags that this is actually not porn, but a torture film made by and for psychopaths.

Yeah I am using very strong words, but also... it's saying something about myself, that I can't always tell the difference between what I love and what I hate. I mean I do like a good S&M/rapey fantasy. Sometimes my red flag spider senses fail and I find myself watching a bad rapey vid, I get annoyed (with myself) and end up with an aborted masturbation.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. The movies are 100% fiction, as are all our fantasies.

Your explanation of the prevalence of r*** in JAV is interesting. But I think the interest in it is more cross-cultural than many people think. Maybe 1% of American porn has r*** in it, used to be 0%. It's not because its illegal to depict it - everything that isn't kiddie porn is de facto legal now since they quit enforcing obscenities laws. And it isn't a lack of interest, either. Surveys show about 40% of American men admitting to having r*** fantasies. It's that porn is already under negative scrutiny from feminists for its misogyny (rough sex and degrading talk), so adding r*** into the mix would only bring more of the sort of attention they'd rather avoid. But if they did produce it, plenty of people would watch it, whether they admitted it or not.

I think the universal reason why men have this fantasy is because of high sexual motivation, sexual voyeurism (we fetishize attractive women as objects of desire), and limited access, with women being the gate keepers. This causes frustration which can lead to aggressive thoughts and/or aggressive behavior. Those who act out will r*** or sexually assault. Instead, they might try some JAV r*** films as a release. There's some data to suggest that r*** has declined in Japan over the past 30 years, which is pretty much the timeframe of JAV really being a thing there. Not sure if there's causation there or not, but I think it being a cathartic outlet is likely.

Which is not to say that men who have these fantasies would commit these acts if they didn't have such a release. Most men having these fantasies would never r*** anyway because they have enough of a conscience not to. But porn is where you can check your conscience at the door for the moment because it's all fantasy and make believe.

 

[headcrusher]

I want amplify one point, there's something deeply deeply sick and repulsive about some important genres of JAV. A while ago, I learn how to understand this, from (I think) a Japanese youtuber, probably not Nobita, but at least someone like him.

The explanation is that Japanese men suffers a lot of pressure and humiliations in their life, everyday. There's a lot of restrictions how he behaves and what he must say, and a lot of scolding from his seniors (parents, teachers, bosses, and older colleagues 先輩 (senpai). In order to relieve the pressure (if the standard "healthy" method of getting drunk with colleagues is not enough) he would find a weaker target that he could be mean and nasty to, to inflict on the target the same treatment that he got earlier in the day.

This is why in a lot of NTR scenes, the r**ist can take all day doing nasty things to his victim, causing discomfort, embarassment, humiliation and insult BUT doesn't hurry to get himself some pleasure. He may not take his pants off, and his cock may not get very erect. If and when he finally gets to ejeculation, he seems more concerned about using his semen as a contanimation or insult on the woman rather try to have the bestest more awesome orgasm for himself. These are red flags that this is actually not porn, but a torture film made by and for psychopaths.

Yeah I am using very strong words, but also... it's saying something about myself, that I can't always tell the difference between what I love and what I hate. I mean I do like a good S&M/rapey fantasy. Sometimes my red flag spider senses fail and I find myself watching a bad rapey vid, I get annoyed (with myself) and end up with an aborted masturbation.

I agree, and I think it's pretty obvious...

What are some common r*** themes?

-Husband dies and some men fuck the still grieving wife to collect debts.
-Bus full of workers where they r*** a (working) woman.
-Spy/special agent enters a building but gets arrested.
-Fighter wins a fight against a man but then some other men enter and r*** her.
-Public baths where some old men r*** 1/2 lolis.


There's a lot of humiliation and the "showing a woman what's her place" is a common theme.

 

[ding73ding]

I agree, and I think it's pretty obvious...

What are some common r*** themes?

-Husband dies and some men fuck the still grieving wife to collect debts.
-Bus full of workers where they r*** a (working) woman.
-Spy/special agent enters a building but gets arrested.
-Fighter wins a fight against a man but then some other men enter and r*** her.
-Public baths where some old men r*** 1/2 lolis.


There's a lot of humiliation and the "showing a woman what's her place" is a common theme.

Yes yes but these are (often) not the worst cases that drive me up the wall. Like the yakuza r*** wife/widow for debt, same as Godfather Al Pacino murder his brother-in-law, "it's only business". Special agent gets tortured r***ing also annoy me very often, but come on the agent carries a gun without a bra and enters a villain den, surely some tactical intercourse is an accepted risk. Which is why I love the premise but wish it's at least more balanced or prefer to have woman to have to upper hand (which is why I really love the "Ejaculation Enforcement Agent" series of Prestige).

The kind that I really hate is kinda covered in the last two cases. There's a common theme of woman in a senior rank (teacher and boss-lady are most common, also demanding neighbor/housewife) and the man being student, incompetent worker or irresponsible neighbor (e.g. leaving unsorted garbage) is deserving of scolding by the woman and end up taking (unjust) revenge by raping her.

The closest analogy is animals: when a snake eats a small cute animal, we might feel bad but the snake is hungry, right?? I can understand the snake. Some man (esp. White Man) shoot lion or rhino from a helicopter which is despicable, but I can also understand what's in his head. I also like to imagine myself if ever there's such a situation (post WW3?) that I can kill whatever I need to feed both myself and my family. But some demented people torture and kill small animals because he (always a he) enjoy the little screaming or watch the animal suffer. The 1/2 loli you mention are often in the same theme.

 

[maelstrom9999]

Yes they run in with guns and no bra. Just like women get molested on trains while 20 people sit there and don't even notice, if only to get off on watching. These are all clues that not only is this fiction - it's totally absurd. It isn't meant to be realistic because sexual fantasies aren't meant to be realistic. If our fantasies were realistic, they'd be happening IRL a lot more often and we wouldn't need the fantasies. I see all this as ridiculous sex dreams, being depicted on screen to enhance masturbation, nothing more. That's why I don't care about what is in them, other than the fact that certain kinks I enjoy and others I do not. I am disgusted by scat, so I just don't watch it. But it doesn't bother me one way or the other that some people like it.

 

[talonn]

.

 

[ding73ding]

What do you mean by NTR in this context? I thought NTR referred to adultery?

Literally yes, you are right NTR came from netora 寝取り (taking someone's wife) or 寝取られ (wife taken by someone). Adultery is the most common English translation but it's one of those lost in translation thing. At the least, consensual extramarrital affair is not netora. I think it's closer to r*** than adultery. Anyway within JAV, NTR has become very blurry all kinds of enforced sex can be tagged as NTR.

Yes they run in with guns and no bra. Just like women get molested on trains while 20 people sit there and don't even notice, if only to get off on watching. These are all clues that not only is this fiction - it's totally absurd. It isn't meant to be realistic because sexual fantasies aren't meant to be realistic. If our fantasies were realistic, they'd be happening IRL a lot more often and we wouldn't need the fantasies. I see all this as ridiculous sex dreams, being depicted on screen to enhance masturbation, nothing more. That's why I don't care about what is in them, other than the fact that certain kinks I enjoy and others I do not. I am disgusted by scat, so I just don't watch it. But it doesn't bother me one way or the other that some people like it.

BTW the scenario 20 people on a train and not do a thing to stop a r*** and/or help the victim is perhaps not totally un-realistic. At least it's well known ladies on trains and buses are constantly getting their ass grabbed, and things worse than that.

Yes yes I always knew JAV are fictional. But just because X is fictional doesn't mean it's a positive aid for masturbation. E.g. sex in public toliet, licking urinal etc. I don't care how it's perfectly cleaned and disinfected by crew before shooting the scene. It's just totally erection busting ok. And scat... right... it's most likely chocolate mousse but that's not the point, ok?

And I don't totally agree it's a private kink. It's one thing certain dude gets off on getting spanked while wearing lingerie. It's another thing some distrubed kid enjoy the sound made by a dying cat. There's a high risk he will find a gun and shoot up a school!

.I prefere reverse r***, any recommendations?

Ha!! It's one of the positive progression of JAV industry. It was once un-heard of, but now every week there are plenty of reverse r*** titles. Just search with the single word 逆 (reverse) you will get some hits.

I mentioned some IdeaPockets r*** titles are my fav, well IPX also made them in reverse once in a while: IPX-855, an OL put drug in her boss' drink and then r***ing him repeatedly. I haven't seen it myself, but it's a good bet for you.

One of my all time fav is MEYD-630. Female boss exploit her senoir position and set up her male assistant to spend a night with her. She knows he's engaged but force-fucks him anyway. In the end, she reluctantly releases him because he will have a better career and happy marriage without her in the picture.

It's especially fun to watch because Matsuri Kiritani 桐谷まつり is absolutely incompetent actor. She has one tone of voice and the same expression for all her talking scenes in her career. Yet it's a subtle wonderful touching emotional and sexual drama. LOL

The above two titles are in my "No-means-yes" category but reversed. If you look for something harder, then back to Ejaculation Enforcement Agent, especially ABP-984, my gods, 涼森れむ Remu Suzumori give men the most terrifying ejaculation imaginable.

Plus: she also got r***ing by her junior assistant after the bad guy gave him a evil sciencey drink, but it's fine because actually she was secretly in love with him. Then she also got r***ing by the bad guy in the line of duty, but after a long session of fucking she defeated him sexually and arrested him. Happy End.

 

[talonn]

Awesome thanks! I will try that magic keyword 逆 while searching for more. There is one thing tho, MEYD-830 might be the wrong movie code as I couldn't find anything about it

 

[ding73ding]

Awesome thanks! I will try that magic keyword 逆 while searching for more. There is one thing tho, MEYD-830 might be the wrong movie code as I couldn't find anything about it

Oops a typo, it's MEYD-630

Come to think of it... is it really a reverse r*** vid? Because men are 99.9% non-resistant when it come to female-initiated sex. How do you distinguish female seduction and reverse r***? Like the dude in MEYD-630, he's just saying no at first because he has a girlfriend already. Otherwise, surely, he is happy to have sex with Matsuri Kiritani.

 

[javongo]

Some of you sound like white knight, politically correct porn watchers and are Freudian in your perception of reality but this is a YOU problem. "... men are 99.9% non-resistant to female-initiated sex" where do you come up with such a stupid stat... oh yeah YOU made it up. There are so many women I would never sleep with even if they were trying to "initiate sex" (who says that? lol) because they are either way too ugly or just not my type (complexion, figure, voice, attitude).

If I wanted to I could breakdown how ALL pornography boiled down is r*** at its core.

I think a lot of you guys are porn watchers because you can't get a girl on your own so you resort to porn rather than just a urge that you quench from time to time so maybe this plays into how you think about women in general. I don't know.

 

[maload]

Some of you sound like white knight, politically correct porn watchers and are Freudian in your perception of reality but this is a YOU problem. "... men are 99.9% non-resistant to female-initiated sex" where do you come up with such a stupid stat... oh yeah YOU made it up. There are so many women I would never sleep with even if they were trying to "initiate sex" (who says that? lol) because they are either way too ugly or just not my type (complexion, figure, voice, attitude).

If I wanted to I could breakdown how ALL pornography boiled down is r*** at its core.

I think a lot of you guys are porn watchers because you can't get a girl on your own so you resort to porn rather than just a urge that you quench from time to time so maybe this plays into how you think about women in general. I don't know.

jav producer is great .
the best problem is that he is not the one who post and doing database in the website .
and believe me. its just little bit mistake and more than what they pay for somebody who do the database posting job.
o
do you think that people dont watch jav if they have wifes or free holes on the street .??