Why does everyone seem so hostile?

[Darkonis]

Why is it everyone seemed and in my opinion has been so hostile regarding any post of mine? After the posting of my first two threads those who have responded have done so with hostility and what seems to be borderline hatred.
I think it's because I am not a conformist and will not simply join the crowd as far as not asking questions about the junior idol material when I feel a need. I noticed the things they were being asked to do and pose in and got curious so I asked a question then the hostility came in a great tsunami. As did the assumptions and accusations. Maybe it's believed I some how attacked the industry by asking my question and somehow that was translated into an attack against fans of junior idols. If you believe that I'm sorry but that wasn't the case there are many fans here that in my opinion seemed to have taken things a little too far if I ever did attack the junior idol industry the only ones that should get upset are the idols and the photographers. They'd be the ones that would hear any attack I make if I ever decide to do so which is not likely to happen ever in my lifetime. Maybe unintentionally I've some how upset everyone's comfortability because I've shown that I'm indeed an individual and will always be or maybe it's both. Understand this I was not placed on earth to get along with everyone and think as everyone else or to worry about making everyone comfortable by being one of them by refusing to ask questions even if it might shine light on a possible connection possible that is to the AV world. I dislike the thought but that doesn't make the possibility not exist so I do the only thing I can and accept it might exist.

I placed threads in a forum an expressed my opinion as I'm entitled to so why is everyone who has read my posts well everyone for the most part so hostile?

If you bother to respond please clearly state what I have done in your opinion that made you hostile with out any insults and please show some kind of evidence thank you

 

[elgringo14]

Maybe because you opened topics about sensitive subjects for the "adult" community.
I tried to follow a bit the topic about "child porn (sic)", well it became a wild discussion about liberties and legality and freedom and stuff.
Actually I lost the discussion since it went out of control. Does it deserve 15 pages ???
And you know with "fans", ideas get a bit extreme sometimes.

I think (and hope) everybody here agrees that abuse of real underaged children is plain wrong. About "virtual" underaged children (games, manga, anime, CG), I would say it's under personal convictions. And by saying that, I'm exposed to polemics.

Don't take it bad, it's a kind of natural thing with a popular forum like this one. I'd like to know what the basic japanese otaku thinks about this ...

 

[Rhinosaur]

If it makes you feel any better, I've never heard of you!

 

[Darkonis]

Maybe because you opened topics about sensitive subjects for the "adult" community.
I tried to follow a bit the topic about "child porn (sic)", well it became a wild discussion about liberties and legality and freedom and stuff.
Actually I lost the discussion since it went out of control. Does it deserve 15 pages ???
And you know with "fans", ideas get a bit extreme sometimes.

I think (and hope) everybody here agrees that abuse of real underaged children is plain wrong. About "virtual" underaged children (games, manga, anime, CG), I would say it's under personal convictions. And by saying that, I'm exposed to polemics.

Don't take it bad, it's a kind of natural thing with a popular forum like this one. I'd like to know what the basic japanese otaku thinks about this ...

You maybe right I don't believe that's a call for hostility but I know it does make some uncomfortable. Not that I intended to do so I guess I can be called naive at least a little cause I didn't think my first 2 posts would cause such an uproar nor did I believe any of the junior idol fans here would become that upset. I believed that my question would be seen for what is was a question no more no less.

 

[Sakunyuusha]

You're riding the train to work when, ten minutes after you board, it feels as though someone's finger has just jabbed your left butt cheek. You swivel around and see:

A. a complete stranger, male, age 46, professional dress
B. a complete stranger, male, age 46, homeless and inebriated
C. a complete stranger, female, age 31, professional dress and very attractive
D. a complete stranger, female, age 8, a freckle-faced girl with pig tails who is laughing at you
E. an adult you know and are friends with
F. a child you know and are friends with
G. an adult family member
H. a child family member

There's lots of possibilities, but these 8 are good enough to get us started.

Who do you immediately suspect of having sexual intentions? For me, it's A and C only

Who do you immediately suspect of being a perverse person? For me, it's A only. C is flirting with me. A may be flirting with me too but I don't like it!

Who do you believe if they tell you, "I almost tripped and I stuck out my hand--" ? For me, it'd only be B, E, F, G, and H. The little girl has no sexual intentions but she clearly did it on purpose and thinks she's so clever (would be my first thought, whether it's correct or not). I believe the homeless guy -- he's drunk! And I believe my family and friends. I don't trust the strangers. Both of them are making moves on me, my mind immediately concludes, and one of them -- the adult male -- is making moves that I don't care for.





What does all this have to do with your original question? We're the guy riding the train. You're the guy who just stuck his finger one inch to the left of our asshole and shoved it real hard. (As in the train metaphor,) you stammer an apology saying you didn't meant to, it was an accident, etc. It's the same situation.

And it's not just Akiba-Online. It's every society you'll ever be a part of. It's human nature to screen people like this, to assess their honesty based on past precedent and to assume that they're guilty until proven innocent. "Better safe than sorry" is a politer way of putting it. It's the reason why some wise, noble men ages ago realized the importance of crafting a set of laws which would include the line that "the courts shall recognize that the accused is innocent until proven guilty." It's because it's not in our nature to operate that way, but calm logic dictates that we do else we won't be conducting a fair trial! In other words, these men were so wise -- so very, very wise -- that they recognized that the human mentality, at is base, is not built around judging the world fairly but instead around judging the world so as to place the judger (i.e. you, the one with the brain that's doing all this thinking) into the best of all possible outcomes to ensure his (your) survival. Your brain is there to help you exist and be happy -- not to help you be fair. You may not like that, but it is what it is. A tiger isn't interested in playing fair: it's interested in being happy and surviving. If all you're doing is petting it on its back but it doesn't like it? It eats you. "Quit fucking petting me! GOSH! >O" the tiger thinks to himself. He places his comfort over your entire existence. And Men aren't much different.

Chinese. English. Ethiopian. Peruvian. It doesn't matter where you grew up or what your ancestry is: unless you've worked really, really, really quite hard at it, you're always going to let the people you know better get away with inappropriate behavior more times than you're going to let total strangers do so; or, to look at it from your specific situation, human beings will always hand out harsher punishments to strangers than to acquaintances. It's why 4chan is a festering cesspool of racial slurs and namecalling, why Akiba-Online is less so, and why your dinner table at home is even less than that.

Selfishly: the more you know people, the less you'll want to get on their bad side.
Selflessly: the more you know people, the less you'll want to hurt their feelings.

Whether you're confronting selfish people here or selfless people here, everyone, nice guys and assholes alike, are going to treat you meaner than they would treat better-known members.

Is it fair? No. Is it just the way the world is? Yes, so accept it and learn from it.

If you want to push people's buttons, go right ahead, but don't be surprised when it explodes in your face and people call you hateful names.

If you want to discuss sensitive issues, I would strongly urge you and anybody else reading this to please reconsider doing so as a new member. Less than 100 posts? Registered in April 2009? There's no hiding the fact that you're a new account (even if you could always be an old member in disguise lol), and because of that it means that you lack certain social privileges. Not Akiba-Online privileges, but worldwide, humanity-wide privileges. Like being allowed to poke my butt and expect me to NOT think you're gay and coming on to me. Or like posting a thread about child pornography (FLAME WAR waiting to happen) and posting a black-and-white "this is right, this is wrong" rant about it at that.

Heck, you didn't even just talk about CP: you specifically stated that trying to illegalize it is a waste of time and a dumb thing to do. The moment you said that, a large minority of the board took it as a personal insult. What did you expect? :sigh:

 

[Sakunyuusha]

I'm double-posting so you see this since it'll be a much tinier post.

One, I haven't read the (original) thread. I only ever saw the title and part of the first post and then quit reading.

Two, I didn't reply to the thread and didn't get into any heated arguments with you or anybody else.

Three, for the record, I don't know shit about you and I don't like to judge people based on just one good thing or one bad thing about them. "All you know is he works for the electric company." "All you know is she's married." "All you know is he's fluent in Tagalog." "All you know is he thinks illegalizing child pornography is a waste of time." I mean ... these things can tell me s-o-m-e-t-h-i-n-g-s ... but nowhere near enough to condemn or praise a guy. lol

 

[Ceewan]

yep

Sakunyuusha one thing I can say about you is you are rarely at a loss for words, lol. But I think in general you have it pretty much figured right.

Yeah Darkonis pulled some newcomer no nos. It doesn't help that there are a lot of emotive people in the Jr Idol area who enjoy stirring the coals to keep the fire hot. I guess sometimes I am one of them. It is a sensitive topic and many people there have differing but strong opinions on it and don't take to kindly to being disagreed with. It didn't take me too long to get bored with the whole thing. There a lot of better things to do here than continue fruitless arguments with one another.

 

[Darkonis]

You're riding the train to work when, ten minutes after you board, it feels as though someone's finger has just jabbed your left butt cheek. You swivel around and see:

A. a complete stranger, male, age 46, professional dress
B. a complete stranger, male, age 46, homeless and inebriated
C. a complete stranger, female, age 31, professional dress and very attractive
D. a complete stranger, female, age 8, a freckle-faced girl with pig tails who is laughing at you
E. an adult you know and are friends with
F. a child you know and are friends with
G. an adult family member
H. a child family member

There's lots of possibilities, but these 8 are good enough to get us started.

Who do you immediately suspect of having sexual intentions? For me, it's A and C only

Who do you immediately suspect of being a perverse person? For me, it's A only. C is flirting with me. A may be flirting with me too but I don't like it!

Who do you believe if they tell you, "I almost tripped and I stuck out my hand--" ? For me, it'd only be B, E, F, G, and H. The little girl has no sexual intentions but she clearly did it on purpose and thinks she's so clever (would be my first thought, whether it's correct or not). I believe the homeless guy -- he's drunk! And I believe my family and friends. I don't trust the strangers. Both of them are making moves on me, my mind immediately concludes, and one of them -- the adult male -- is making moves that I don't care for.





What does all this have to do with your original question? We're the guy riding the train. You're the guy who just stuck his finger one inch to the left of our asshole and shoved it real hard. (As in the train metaphor,) you stammer an apology saying you didn't meant to, it was an accident, etc. It's the same situation.

And it's not just Akiba-Online. It's every society you'll ever be a part of. It's human nature to screen people like this, to assess their honesty based on past precedent and to assume that they're guilty until proven innocent. "Better safe than sorry" is a politer way of putting it. It's the reason why some wise, noble men ages ago realized the importance of crafting a set of laws which would include the line that "the courts shall recognize that the accused is innocent until proven guilty." It's because it's not in our nature to operate that way, but calm logic dictates that we do else we won't be conducting a fair trial! In other words, these men were so wise -- so very, very wise -- that they recognized that the human mentality, at is base, is not built around judging the world fairly but instead around judging the world so as to place the judger (i.e. you, the one with the brain that's doing all this thinking) into the best of all possible outcomes to ensure his (your) survival. Your brain is there to help you exist and be happy -- not to help you be fair. You may not like that, but it is what it is. A tiger isn't interested in playing fair: it's interested in being happy and surviving. If all you're doing is petting it on its back but it doesn't like it? It eats you. "Quit fucking petting me! GOSH! >O" the tiger thinks to himself. He places his comfort over your entire existence. And Men aren't much different.

Chinese. English. Ethiopian. Peruvian. It doesn't matter where you grew up or what your ancestry is: unless you've worked really, really, really quite hard at it, you're always going to let the people you know better get away with inappropriate behavior more times than you're going to let total strangers do so; or, to look at it from your specific situation, human beings will always hand out harsher punishments to strangers than to acquaintances. It's why 4chan is a festering cesspool of racial slurs and namecalling, why Akiba-Online is less so, and why your dinner table at home is even less than that.

Selfishly: the more you know people, the less you'll want to get on their bad side.
Selflessly: the more you know people, the less you'll want to hurt their feelings.

Whether you're confronting selfish people here or selfless people here, everyone, nice guys and assholes alike, are going to treat you meaner than they would treat better-known members.

Is it fair? No. Is it just the way the world is? Yes, so accept it and learn from it.

If you want to push people's buttons, go right ahead, but don't be surprised when it explodes in your face and people call you hateful names.

If you want to discuss sensitive issues, I would strongly urge you and anybody else reading this to please reconsider doing so as a new member. Less than 100 posts? Registered in April 2009? There's no hiding the fact that you're a new account (even if you could always be an old member in disguise lol), and because of that it means that you lack certain social privileges. Not Akiba-Online privileges, but worldwide, humanity-wide privileges. Like being allowed to poke my butt and expect me to NOT think you're gay and coming on to me. Or like posting a thread about child pornography (FLAME WAR waiting to happen) and posting a black-and-white "this is right, this is wrong" rant about it at that.

Heck, you didn't even just talk about CP: you specifically stated that trying to illegalize it is a waste of time and a dumb thing to do. The moment you said that, a large minority of the board took it as a personal insult. What did you expect? :sigh:

I'm sorry did you say I lack certain social privileges? You're mistaken dear fellow I'm lacking nothing. Yes my apologies aren't flowery nor are they meant to kiss anyone's behind. I'm no brown nose nor will I be furthermore I'm a non conformist I love standing out. So to expect me to behave the way so many others before me have just because I'm new will always be a mistake. I'm public enemy #1 I challenge the system of conformity and at times shatter it. I say to those who for whatever reason took my opinion as a personal insult sorry. But understand I will never and I mean never stop being myself in order to preserve the comfort of conformity enjoyed by most here

 

[Darkonis]

Sakunyuusha one thing I can say about you is you are rarely at a loss for words, lol. But I think in general you have it pretty much figured right.

Yeah Darkonis pulled some newcomer no nos. It doesn't help that there are a lot of emotive people in the Jr Idol area who enjoy stirring the coals to keep the fire hot. I guess sometimes I am one of them. It is a sensitive topic and many people there have differing but strong opinions on it and don't take to kindly to being disagreed with. It didn't take me too long to get bored with the whole thing. There a lot of better things to do here than continue fruitless arguments with one another.

You said I pulled some newcomer no nos. Only in your definition in mine which is the one I go by I did nothing wrong even if I'm a newcomer

 

[Sakunyuusha]

I'm sorry did you say I lack certain social privileges? You're mistaken dear fellow I'm lacking nothing.

You're either trolling me, antisocial, or both. I'm not the Man trying to boss you around and tell you what to do. I'm on your side. And I'm just trying to remind you that it's human nature to treat the unknown differently than the known. You are an unknown. You will therefore be treated differently than the knowns here. It's not that you lack anything inside your power to control. You lack something completely outside your power to control. It's not your fault and it doesn't make you any less of a person, but you are new, and a newcomer in any society is treated with caution.

If you still don't get it, think about old Westerns. When the new guy in town shows up, the townsfolk are pretty cold and mistrusting to him, right? They get along just fine with one another. And this guy hasn't done anything wrong to them. But when he walks down the street, people avert their gaze and shoo their children along and tell them not to point at the strange man. That guy could be Clint Eastwood. He could be da man. He's still lacking social privileges in their society.

Honestly, though, if you are as "loner and happy" as your user title suggests you are, then it doesn't even make sense for you to want to reach out to others via a social webforum like A-O. Such behavior suggests that you're not actually antisocial but are just trolling for lulz.

 

[guy]

You said I pulled some newcomer no nos. Only in your definition in mine which is the one I go by I did nothing wrong even if I'm a newcomer

Imagine yourself with a group of friends, joking around and playing jokes on each other all in good humor, as friends normally do. Along comes a stranger, who starts playing the same jokes on you and your friends because they want to join you and your friends, and (either from their own opinion or by observing you first) they think it's perfectly fine to jump in on the fun.

In most circumstances, most people will be taken aback by this sort of action. Not that the stranger has done anything technically wrong -- the jokes are the same that any of the friends would do -- but because the new person is a complete stranger and the group has had no time to get to know the new person and develop a level of trust.



More specifically, the problem isn't that you were vocal with your opinions (we have plenty of people that are vocal all the time) -- it's that you put them forward so abruptly as a newcomer, and particularly in topics that are quite sensitive here at AO.

Regarding your topics concerning CP as posted in the Junior Idol Club, these are some reasons as to why they have been met with notable hostility:

• We have absolutely no idea who you are or what your interest in JI is, we therefore have no idea if you are asking in earnest or have some ulterior motive or agenda regarding JI.
• We have clear guidelines separating JI (permissible under certain conditions) and CP (prohibited under all conditions), both in content and in certain types of discussion.
• We have faced repeated instigation from all kinds of sources despite the guidelines above (concerning legality of the topics), and as a result there is a certain amount of distrust towards newcomers for the sake of keeping the existing community together.
• The topics you have posted have, in one form or another, been dealt with many times over, and by starting new topics "from scratch" concerning old issues, you have given the impression that you did not bother reviewing any of those threads.
• It is certainly not imperative that you read every single post before you start a conversation, but if you made even a small effort, it would be: a) a form of respect for the active members who have been pivotal in making the forum into what it is today; b) a chance for you to answer some of your own questions as they have been discussed in prior threads; and c) a good way for you yourself to get to know how some of the members think, and to pick up on the general aura/mood of the (sub)forum.
• Conversely, posting so abruptly has quite the opposite effect: we get the impression that you don't really care about any of the discussions that have already taken place and are only interested in your own opinions. This is particularly hard for the topics you had chosen because they are often frustrating for many members to revisit over and over again, especially after their great efforts to cool everyone's tempers.

To put it simply, you came in with a brazen attitude. Not that brazen attitudes are bad, because it's fine to speak your mind, and lots of members do. The problem is that trolls and flamers also have brazen attitudes, and when it comes to topics like CP, they have the ability of starting a big mess when everyone would otherwise be quite peacable; we simply have no idea of which you are since you're so new. If you're genuinely interested then you'll stick around, and in time we'll get a chance to know you better and to respect your candor -- and you'll come to understand how some of the more vocal members like to debate (eg: what you see now as "hostility" might turn into "joking around", or at least intellectual discussions and not personal attacks).



To address your concern specifically about the possibility of a connection between JI and AV. I will not provide a direct answer because none exists. I will say that if you review a number of the previous threads and note the timeline, you should see that the question has come up many times, and each time nothing much ever came of any supposed assumption of the connection from JI to AV. You should also find these general observations among others:

• There have been sporadic incidents between specific under-18 models and mismanagement or certain companies, but none of those circumstance have been general enough to be applied all individuals/companies involved with JI.
• There is no singular palate when it comes to JI. Spend some time reviewing different agencies and you will see a broad gamut, ranging from pure gravure ("fan service" modeling) to pure talent production (acting, dance, music), as well as the new brand of fake JIs and non-Japanese JIs, which can all be considered JI.
• There are some ex-JI models who have gone into AV (I believe the current number is an outstanding 3), but there has been no evidence that their circumstances can be directly applied to current JIs.

No one is trying to brush the issue under the carpet -- in fact, a lot of members have personal interest in seeing that JI does not turn out that way. There just hasn't been any substantial evidence showing that the JI scene in general is a training ground for AV, despite the few exceptions that exist. Please also note: just because we don't have evidence doesn't mean it exists (and that we simply aren't privy to it), just as much as it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Hence the question "does JI lead to AV" is futile because neither answer ("yes" or "no") is correct. With what evidence we have, all we can say is that it takes some exceptional circumstances to push a JI into AV, and there will always be heated debate about exactly how many JIs it would take until it meant the whole JI scene is "tainted".



On a personal note, no one is attacking you for "being an individual and speaking your mind" (although by the rhetoric of some members it might come off that way). It's just that you're speaking your mind when you appear to not know very much about what you're talking about. It's fine if you're asking out of genuine interest in order to learn more, but "being an individual" has little to do with asking questions in earnest. If it's more important for you to be an individual than to genuinely ask questions (ie: that which takes the ability of setting aside your own opinions in order to think about and appreciate -- but not necessarily agree with -- other people's opinions), then earnesty goes out the window, and what you'll get is resistance, time and time again.

 

[Darkonis]

Imagine yourself with a group of friends, joking around and playing jokes on each other all in good humor, as friends normally do. Along comes a stranger, who starts playing the same jokes on you and your friends because they want to join you and your friends, and (either from their own opinion or by observing you first) they think it's perfectly fine to jump in on the fun.

In most circumstances, most people will be taken aback by this sort of action. Not that the stranger has done anything technically wrong -- the jokes are the same that any of the friends would do -- but because the new person is a complete stranger and the group has had no time to get to know the new person and develop a level of trust.



More specifically, the problem isn't that you were vocal with your opinions (we have plenty of people that are vocal all the time) -- it's that you put them forward so abruptly as a newcomer, and particularly in topics that are quite sensitive here at AO.

Regarding your topics concerning CP as posted in the Junior Idol Club, these are some reasons as to why they have been met with notable hostility:

• We have absolutely no idea who you are or what your interest in JI is, we therefore have no idea if you are asking in earnest or have some ulterior motive or agenda regarding JI.
• We have clear guidelines separating JI (permissible under certain conditions) and CP (prohibited under all conditions), both in content and in certain types of discussion.
• We have faced repeated instigation from all kinds of sources despite the guidelines above (concerning legality of the topics), and as a result there is a certain amount of distrust towards newcomers for the sake of keeping the existing community together.
• The topics you have posted have, in one form or another, been dealt with many times over, and by starting new topics "from scratch" concerning old issues, you have given the impression that you did not bother reviewing any of those threads.
• It is certainly not imperative that you read every single post before you start a conversation, but if you made even a small effort, it would be: a) a form of respect for the active members who have been pivotal in making the forum into what it is today; b) a chance for you to answer some of your own questions as they have been discussed in prior threads; and c) a good way for you yourself to get to know how some of the members think, and to pick up on the general aura/mood of the (sub)forum.
• Conversely, posting so abruptly has quite the opposite effect: we get the impression that you don't really care about any of the discussions that have already taken place and are only interested in your own opinions. This is particularly hard for the topics you had chosen because they are often frustrating for many members to revisit over and over again, especially after their great efforts to cool everyone's tempers.

To put it simply, you came in with a brazen attitude. Not that brazen attitudes are bad, because it's fine to speak your mind, and lots of members do. The problem is that trolls and flamers also have brazen attitudes, and when it comes to topics like CP, they have the ability of starting a big mess when everyone would otherwise be quite peacable; we simply have no idea of which you are since you're so new. If you're genuinely interested then you'll stick around, and in time we'll get a chance to know you better and to respect your candor -- and you'll come to understand how some of the more vocal members like to debate (eg: what you see now as "hostility" might turn into "joking around", or at least intellectual discussions and not personal attacks).



To address your concern specifically about the possibility of a connection between JI and AV. I will not provide a direct answer because none exists. I will say that if you review a number of the previous threads and note the timeline, you should see that the question has come up many times, and each time nothing much ever came of any supposed assumption of the connection from JI to AV. You should also find these general observations among others:

• There have been sporadic incidents between specific under-18 models and mismanagement or certain companies, but none of those circumstance have been general enough to be applied all individuals/companies involved with JI.
• There is no singular palate when it comes to JI. Spend some time reviewing different agencies and you will see a broad gamut, ranging from pure gravure ("fan service" modeling) to pure talent production (acting, dance, music), as well as the new brand of fake JIs and non-Japanese JIs, which can all be considered JI.
• There are some ex-JI models who have gone into AV (I believe the current number is an outstanding 3), but there has been no evidence that their circumstances can be directly applied to current JIs.

No one is trying to brush the issue under the carpet -- in fact, a lot of members have personal interest in seeing that JI does not turn out that way. There just hasn't been any substantial evidence showing that the JI scene in general is a training ground for AV, despite the few exceptions that exist. Please also note: just because we don't have evidence doesn't mean it exists (and that we simply aren't privy to it), just as much as it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Hence the question "does JI lead to AV" is futile because neither answer ("yes" or "no") is correct. With what evidence we have, all we can say is that it takes some exceptional circumstances to push a JI into AV, and there will always be heated debate about exactly how many JIs it would take until it meant the whole JI scene is "tainted".



On a personal note, no one is attacking you for "being an individual and speaking your mind" (although by the rhetoric of some members it might come off that way). It's just that you're speaking your mind when you appear to not know very much about what you're talking about. It's fine if you're asking out of genuine interest in order to learn more, but "being an individual" has little to do with asking questions in earnest. If it's more important for you to be an individual than to genuinely ask questions (ie: that which takes the ability of setting aside your own opinions in order to think about and appreciate -- but not necessarily agree with -- other people's opinions), then earnesty goes out the window, and what you'll get is resistance, time and time again.

First of all the level of trust you speak of would be needed only if I started asking personal questions of the others. But just to ask a question I need not wait who knows how long before I'm trusted enough to ask a question with out receiving hostility in return. Also I put trust into the members of AO that I'd be accepted and allowed to enjoy myself in peace when I registered. By my understanding to get trust you must give it I did just that. But got none in return what's more no one on AO can prove in anyway Darkonis is a trouble maker because there's never been an incident in which Darkonis ever caused any trouble on any forum on the web. So having joined AO with a clean slate when it comes to trouble making I believed that be proof enough.

If I had an ulterior motive or a hidden agenda to complete I'd not have to bother anyone to accomplish my task I'd simply go and do it and be done with it. Also my attitude isn't brazen in the least I just believe to find out if your wrong about something you must state what you believe to be true and wait to see if your corrected. If you and others want to know what my interest is in junior idols it'd be necessary to ask if no one asks I'm not going to say anything. It is not up to me to simply spill my guts and if no one bothers to ask me any questions then I can't be held responsible. To learn about some one it takes more than time it takes actually speaking to that person no one speaks to me so they do not know. If no one asks I will assume no one cares and I will just keep to myself and go about my business so no one will ever know because no one shows any interest and it doesn't matter to me I'm a loner have always been so I'm use to not having any friends and it doesn't bother me

 

[guy]

Let me put it into simpler terms for you:

There are a lot of people who's only interest in JI is seeing it shut down. And the way they go about it is to go around making baseless accusations that JI is nothing short of child pornography, and to make it sound like the girls who are involved in JI are actually involved with smut peddling and exploitation. So you tell me: for someone to join and, within their first few posts, write vehemently about child pornography and the possibility of JI being a primer for the AV industry -- all while not saying a single word about their own interest in JI -- what evidence is there to prove that they are indeed interested in the (sub)forum topic and not simply trying to troll?

Also, you'll have to do a lot better than to say that "(you) put trust into the members of AO that (you would) be accepted". That's like me saying that I trust you'll stop making inflammatory topics -- it's egoistic and insulting, because I can't force you to censor yourself (not that I want to anyway), just like you can't force someone to be nice to you regardless of what you say.

Genuine trust would be (for instance), posting a little introduction about yourself, a few words about how you came to AO and what your interest in JI is (favorite models, styles, etc), and trusting that as fellow members we will

I realize this probably sounds condescending, and you're free to resist it if you want (I'm sure old habits die hard). But I'm not writing this simply to berate you. In fact, I'm only trying to explain things concretely/clearly, about why you received the negative attention that you did, precisely in the hopes that you can communicate more objectively and effectively with other people in an effort to break out of your self-proclaimed "loner" status.

And as a personal observation, I'm quite sure it bothers you (to some extent) to call yourself a "loner"; if it really didn't, you probably wouldn't have mentioned it in the first place. I understand the urge to write things like "I've always been a loner anyway"; it's a way to defend what you've written elsewhere from attacks.

Again, we don't want to kick you out. As I said elsewhere it isn't even your opinions that people are so against. It's merely the way in which you said them. My reason for suggesting that you look through some of the older threads that are related to the topics you started is so that you have a chance to see some the discussions in which controversial debates were handled calmly, and how other threads quickly spiraled out of control into personal attacks due to some minor rhetoric.

 

[Darkonis]

Let me put it into simpler terms for you:

There are a lot of people who's only interest in JI is seeing it shut down. And the way they go about it is to go around making baseless accusations that JI is nothing short of child pornography, and to make it sound like the girls who are involved in JI are actually involved with smut peddling and exploitation. So you tell me: for someone to join and, within their first few posts, write vehemently about child pornography and the possibility of JI being a primer for the AV industry -- all while not saying a single word about their own interest in JI -- what evidence is there to prove that they are indeed interested in the (sub)forum topic and not simply trying to troll?

Also, you'll have to do a lot better than to say that "(you) put trust into the members of AO that (you would) be accepted". That's like me saying that I trust you'll stop making inflammatory topics -- it's egoistic and insulting, because I can't force you to censor yourself (not that I want to anyway), just like you can't force someone to be nice to you regardless of what you say.

Genuine trust would be (for instance), posting a little introduction about yourself, a few words about how you came to AO and what your interest in JI is (favorite models, styles, etc), and trusting that as fellow members we will

I realize this probably sounds condescending, and you're free to resist it if you want (I'm sure old habits die hard). But I'm not writing this simply to berate you. In fact, I'm only trying to explain things concretely/clearly, about why you received the negative attention that you did, precisely in the hopes that you can communicate more objectively and effectively with other people in an effort to break out of your self-proclaimed "loner" status.

And as a personal observation, I'm quite sure it bothers you (to some extent) to call yourself a "loner"; if it really didn't, you probably wouldn't have mentioned it in the first place. I understand the urge to write things like "I've always been a loner anyway"; it's a way to defend what you've written elsewhere from attacks.

Again, we don't want to kick you out. As I said elsewhere it isn't even your opinions that people are so against. It's merely the way in which you said them. My reason for suggesting that you look through some of the older threads that are related to the topics you started is so that you have a chance to see some the discussions in which controversial debates were handled calmly, and how other threads quickly spiraled out of control into personal attacks due to some minor rhetoric.

What evidence is there how about the fact that as days go bye I start no trouble. Or that all my posts have not been negative when they come to the junior idol industry. If I was here to be a troll I'd be posting nothing but negative thoughts about the junior idol industry and I certainly wouldn't be trying so hard to find junior idol material that's not posted here. Fact is I've been trying to find a p2p program that would aid me in my search haven't had any luck so far.

As for your idea of posting a little something about myself I could and wouldn't mind but since it seems no one is interested I will not at least not yet. Also if you notice the insults and personal attacks you speak of are usually directed at me so you may want to speak to those who deem them necessary not I as I always try to be calm about things unless I'm unjustly targeted by someone.

 

[guy]

What evidence is there how about the fact that as days go bye I start no trouble. Or that all my posts have not been negative when they come to the junior idol industry.

You're missing the point. Go back to your earlier post:

You maybe right I don't believe that's a call for hostility but I know it does make some uncomfortable. Not that I intended to do so I guess I can be called naive at least a little cause I didn't think my first 2 posts would cause such an uproar nor did I believe any of the junior idol fans here would become that upset. I believed that my question would be seen for what is was a question no more no less.

It's not wrong to talk about JI and CP/AV, because the discussions do come up frequently. What I'm trying to say is that if you had taken some time to look at the past discussions about JI and CP/AV, you might have realized in advance that a lot of members will inevitably get upset at the topic even though it's technically an innocuous question. And though you recognize that it makes some people uncomfortable, the JI and CP/AV topics aren't merely uncomfortable but are often seen as a threat, because equating JI with CP/AV doesn't just mean JI is bad, it would mean JI is illegal (and hence the biggest fans would be implicated as participating in something illegal).

You're still free to start the topics if you want, but at least you would better understand that the inevitable negative replies should never be taken as personal attacks. A lot of it is just fans who are being defensive and write emotionally as a knee-jerk reaction, though they seldom actually mean them as true personal attacks.



To put it extremely simple: you admit you might have been a little naive in your first posts. All I'm saying is that had you taken some time to look at some of the other JI and CP/AV topics, it would've been clear that 1) your posts were going to attract a lot of negative attention, and that 2) if you're willing to accept that negative attention, none of it should be taken personally, because none of it is actually meant as personal attacks. And if that's not clear enough, what I'm really trying to say is this is exactly how you can prevent these "hostilities" from happening again.

If you understand and agree with that, then it should be clear why this thread should not exist. So close it down, and let's move on.

 

[Darkonis]

You're missing the point. Go back to your earlier post:



It's not wrong to talk about JI and CP/AV, because the discussions do come up frequently. What I'm trying to say is that if you had taken some time to look at the past discussions about JI and CP/AV, you might have realized in advance that a lot of members will inevitably get upset at the topic even though it's technically an innocuous question. And though you recognize that it makes some people uncomfortable, the JI and CP/AV topics aren't merely uncomfortable but are often seen as a threat, because equating JI with CP/AV doesn't just mean JI is bad, it would mean JI is illegal (and hence the biggest fans would be implicated as participating in something illegal).

You're still free to start the topics if you want, but at least you would better understand that the inevitable negative replies should never be taken as personal attacks. A lot of it is just fans who are being defensive and write emotionally as a knee-jerk reaction, though they seldom actually mean them as true personal attacks.



To put it extremely simple: you admit you might have been a little naive in your first posts. All I'm saying is that had you taken some time to look at some of the other JI and CP/AV topics, it would've been clear that 1) your posts were going to attract a lot of negative attention, and that 2) if you're willing to accept that negative attention, none of it should be taken personally, because none of it is actually meant as personal attacks. And if that's not clear enough, what I'm really trying to say is this is exactly how you can prevent these "hostilities" from happening again.

If you understand and agree with that, then it should be clear why this thread should not exist. So close it down, and let's move on.

And those fans that responded the way they did are missing that I too am a fan and have my favorites as well and by being a member on this site and by purchasing junior idol dvd's I'm participating as well so I'd be in the same boat now wouldn't I. I'd have loved to not have felt the need to ask that question trust me but it became necessary I'll close down the thread soon enough it's just not time.

Oh and it's not up to me to control how some one reacts to a question I ask especially when they do not think first. And I'll admit not everyone may have meant their responses as attacks but I am not stupid and can say for sure that a few things that were said were meant as the hostile remarks they were

 

[baddogarf]

:attention:thank you for this very useful post i am in complete agreement!