Discussion about DMM website

[Waxaxa]

The latest Apache on r18 is AP-194, that's almost 50 titles behind http://www.javlibrary.com/en/?v=javliiyx2u

And the Maxing stuff I'm talking about HD versions (same as with Prestige). I found HD on some donwload sites but the same titles and others from back then aren't in HD on DMM. And javlibrary didn't give me MXBD versions either, so those shouldn't be blu-ray rips either. That's in the #500 zone or so

 

[R18.com]

The latest Apache on r18 is AP-194, that's almost 50 titles behind http://www.javlibrary.com/en/?v=javliiyx2u

And the Maxing stuff I'm talking about HD versions (same as with Prestige). I found HD on some donwload sites but the same titles and others from back then aren't in HD on DMM. And javlibrary didn't give me MXBD verions either, so there shouldn't be blu-ray rips either. That's in the #500 zone or so

The latest Apache for digital Download is AP-194 as you mentioned. Same as DMM:
http://www.dmm.co.jp/digital/videoa/-/list/=/article=maker/id=45992/sort=date/

Some makers want to release first the physical copies (DVD/Blue ray) first and then the digital copies. Apache in this case want to give a margin of 6 month before the digital copy of their products are released so the products wont show on DMM/R18.com for digital sale until the product is 6 month old for this maker. (Every maker has different requirements).

Similar thing for HD movies. Some makers want to have the exclusive rights to sell the HD version on their own site and just give the SD version to sell to other sites so in this case DMM/R18.com does not have the HD.

 

[Waxaxa]

Damn, that's a shame.
Thanks for replying and clarifying.

 

[Casshern2]

Just like what you said about the PPM section, some makers don't want them there until after some time.

 

[pennybags]

Agree with you. They way you explain how you would like it to work will be awesome.
Unfortunately we do not know any technology at this moment that can do that for downloaded content.

Well, IMO, it'd make sense to do something like they do with music or books you pay for online these days where it's not DRM-protected but it's also got a bunch of identifying metadata or some watermark to identify it as yours in case you try to illicitly share it. A little bit of digging online should probably convince you that the DRM is not enough to discourage people who really want to share it and can just screencap it but it is an inconvenience for paying customers.

 

[abadguy87]

R18 do you know if there's any plan to add more Asfur movies to the site? And if there's a plan to add english subtitles to some movies in the near future. thank you.

 

[R18.com]

Well, IMO, it'd make sense to do something like they do with music or books you pay for online these days where it's not DRM-protected but it's also got a bunch of identifying metadata or some watermark to identify it as yours in case you try to illicitly share it. A little bit of digging online should probably convince you that the DRM is not enough to discourage people who really want to share it and can just screencap it but it is an inconvenience for paying customers.

We are not the ones that force the DRM. The makers wont give the content if the content is not DRM protected.

Also Im sure DRM stops some % of piracy. The screecap that you mention is a very painful process to go and take a lot of time.
Also without any DRM people will just buy one movie and share it with all their "friends" very easy.

 

[CodeGeek]

It's like the same as security (of networks and data): You can make it more hard, expensive and time consuming, but it will be hard to make it 100% secure.
Or in aspect of availability (IT infrastructure): You can use RAID systems, having HA cluster and so on. And you get a very high availability with all of these things. But the more close you get to 100% the more expensive and complicated it will get (I'm not speaking about linear increase of costs, but exponential increase).

And the same goes for DRM: You don't get a 100% copy protection, but not every "idiot" can crack it. So it minimizes illegal copies, but of course it doesn't stop them.

I don't have any problems with protection in general. But in aspect of games it often means that the normal customers has more problems with the game than someone who cracked it. Or you have to be online (even if it is not an online game) and you can't sell it. Same goes for other things, too. And that's the point at which I would put my criticism.

So I think the DRM is not the problem here. The point is to make it as convenient as possible.

 

[EroMura777]

And the same goes for DRM: You don't get a 100% copy protection, but not every "idiot" can crack it. So it minimizes illegal copies, but of course it doesn't stop them.

I thought of it more like a screening method in medicine for a given disease. You have four groups of people:

- The ones that the method gives as positive and they are: that is the ones that are 100% legal buying your original product.
- The ones that the method gives as negative and they are: that is the ones that support piracy and illegal downloads regardless.
- The ones that the method gives as positive, but they aren't: that is people that buy your product despite having trouble with DRM or the player.
- The ones that the method gives as negative, but they aren't: people that the DRM thing keeps them from buying your product (not necessarily turning into illegal downloads).

 

[pennybags]

Also without any DRM people will just buy one movie and share it with all their "friends" very easy.

which they also do right now, all the time. and that's the whole point of the identifyign watermark part.

And the same goes for DRM: You don't get a 100% copy protection, but not every "idiot" can crack it. So it minimizes illegal copies, but of course it doesn't stop them.

No, but only one guy has to be smart enough to crack it.

 

[CodeGeek]

which they also do right now, all the time. and that's the whole point of the identifyign watermark part.


No, but only one guy has to be smart enough to crack it.

Okay, a different question: If you would be in the shoes of these companies (or a software company, or a gaming company, etc.) how would you prevent privacy?

 

[pennybags]

Okay, a different question: If you would be in the shoes of these companies (or a software company, or a gaming company, etc.) how would you prevent privacy?

I literally just made this suggestion, but, again, I would use an identifying watermark/metadata on purchased files, like iTunes, Amazon music, Safari Books Online, etc., do. Yes, of course you can scrub it but you can defeat literally any DRM scheme one way or another (if it's visible unscrambled on a remote computer it's impossible for it to be truly secure). And like 90% of movies are available DRM-free on illicit download sites already so I'm not so sure the current scheme is really working.

 

[R18.com]

I literally just made this suggestion, but, again, I would use an identifying watermark/metadata on purchased files, like iTunes, Amazon music, Safari Books Online, etc., do. Yes, of course you can scrub it but you can defeat literally any DRM scheme one way or another (if it's visible unscrambled on a remote computer it's impossible for it to be truly secure). And like 90% of movies are available DRM-free on illicit download sites already so I'm not so sure the current scheme is really working.

The movies and TV shows bought from iTunes Store are protected by Apple’FairPlay DRM, and they can’t be played on non-Apple devices or video players.

 

[pennybags]

The movies and TV shows bought from iTunes Store are protected by Apple’FairPlay DRM, and they can’t be played on non-Apple devices or video players.

That has not been true for six years.

 

[R18.com]

That has not been true for six years.

DRM for songs were dropped in Nov 2013.
Movies and TV shows are still with DRM.
https://support.apple.com/kb/PH12304?locale=en_US

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201784 (From Jun 2015)
Videos purchased from the iTunes Store have FairPlay digital rights management embedded in the files.


Please let us know when you find the technology to do what your describe to protect the makers right and let the users to play the videos with their favorite player.

 

[pennybags]

DRM for songs were dropped in Nov 2013.
Movies and TV shows are still with DRM.
https://support.apple.com/kb/PH12304?locale=en_US

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201784 (From Jun 2015)
Videos purchased from the iTunes Store have FairPlay digital rights management embedded in the files.


Please let us know when you find the technology to do what your describe to protect the makers right and let the users to play the videos with their favorite player.

I don't know why you're fixated on the dates, but do a bit better research. The fact that the FAQ was last updated in 2013 doesn't mean that's when the change took place (which was, in fact, in 2009). http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7813527.stm

To your other point, tags are already built into most popular video containers, like AVI. This is not some arcane, unsolved CS mystery.

Whether movies from iTunes, specifically, have DRM or not is totally beside the point -- numerous online services DO offer DRM-free services, with some tags or other metadata tying them to the purchaser, right now. You, or your bosses, or studios, or whoever, doesn't want to distribute it that way, fine. I'm just one guy mouthing off on a forum. But you don't have to pretend this is a totally novel idea or I'm talking about some fantastical, non-existent technology.

 

[Inertia]

I hate to sound like the 'Leave Britney Alone' guy from the last decade, but R18's owned by a pretty massive company that's been around forever.

No amount of whining on a small foreign BBS is going to convince them to update their DRM policies that a few of the studios they sell on their online marketplace request.

It's definitely frustrating for some, but they do provide a very valuable service.

If you really hate the DRM, try contacting the studios directly in simple English and tell them. They owned by real people and do check their emails. It's worth a shot.

 

[pennybags]

I don't have any expectation that talking abuot it here, or even e-mailing them in Japanese, would really make a difference. Which is fine, I just don't really appreciate a response that's vaguely insulting while being factually inaccurate.

 

[R18.com]

That has not been true for six years.

DRM for songs were dropped in Nov 2013.
Movies and TV shows are still with DRM.
https://support.apple.com/kb/PH12304?locale=en_US

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201784 (From Jun 2015)
Videos purchased from the iTunes Store have FairPlay digital rights management embedded in the files.


Please let us know when you find the technology to do what your describe to protect the makers right and let the users to play the videos with their favorite player.

I don't know why you're fixated on the dates, but do a bit better research. The fact that the FAQ was last updated in 2013 doesn't mean that's when the change took place (which was, in fact, in 2009). http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7813527.stm

To your other point, tags are already built into most popular video containers, like AVI. This is not some arcane, unsolved CS mystery.

Whether movies from iTunes, specifically, have DRM or not is totally beside the point -- numerous online services DO offer DRM-free services, with some tags or other metadata tying them to the purchaser, right now. You, or your bosses, or studios, or whoever, doesn't want to distribute it that way, fine. I'm just one guy mouthing off on a forum. But you don't have to pretend this is a totally novel idea or I'm talking about some fantastical, non-existent technology.

Again, you are talking about Music on iTunes, not Movies. Movies does has DRM and requires the proprietary apples software to watch it as we do at DMM.

Google, Apple, Amazon, Netflix, Hulu. All of them use DRM for their movies. I dont see any other big player that offers movie DRM free.

Adding some metadata to movie without DRM does not help much. It just let the user now who made the movie etc. This does not prevent piracy or illegal distribution.

As I mentioned before., if we find any better technology that can protect content producer rights and make it easier for the users we will move to that technology. At the moment we do not see any solution for Downloaded content.

 

[pennybags]

OK, to be 100% clear on this, my suggestion is that you include metadata about the purchaser int he tags, so that (short of them scrubbing it, which is of course possible, but essentially akin to someone circumventing your DRM, which is also possible) you are able to determine who uploaded unauthorized copies to filesharing sites. This is what most DRM-free sellers do.

I'm not going to bother talking in circles about this because I've said everything I wanted to say and you're just making me repeat myself by not reading what I'm saying very closely.