JAV Really Underage? Appearing So…

[Supmop]

Isn't 18 an arbitrary number? If in some states of the USA and in some other countries the age of consent is 17, then why must display of a sexual act by those that can legally consent be considered disgusting across the border?

I understand why it is done from a legal standpoint since it's basically a matter of convenience. However, if it were the case that the only one state in the union
had an age of consent of 18 and all others were 17, would we still have the limit for performance in porn at 18+? I would assume it to be 17+ if that were the case.

Just throwing that out there for discussion.

17-18 can be consider mature enough to have sex, but younger than that, 13 or younger is still very young, they still categorize as children, I think because of that many people feel its disgusting

I agree with eletromog opinion, it's a good idea to use the highest instead of the lowest, because the movies will spread to more strict states, so its more safe

 

[CodeGeek]

In many countries people reach the legal age when they get 18. At that age you're fully responsible for your actions. It only makes sense that at that age you're also free to work in the porn business. If the legal age would be e.g. 21 I would also expect that people there can do porn at that age and not younger. And it doesn't make sense that it would be legally okay to do porn at a younger age as it would mean that your free or able to decide that at a younger, but can't buy a car or house (because you're not able to sign the contract as you have only a limited contractual capability and not yet the full contractual capability), isn't it - if you look at it from a legal perspective.

 

[Electromog]

I know european and american are more stict about age regulation, but its true that Japanese law allowed 13 years old to perform in adult movies ?

No, they allow 13 year olds to have sex. Not to act in porn. Galactus mentioned the option to make the minimum age for porn the same as the age of consent and I was just explaining the consequences of that.

 

[jugulear]

.
I may have been the one who perhaps most recently brought up the 13-year-old age of consent issue with this post, and Member Kermitfrog cleared up its meaning a few posts later.

As I wrote back then, "This matter is extremely relative, and standards of morality are not etched in stone." At one time, when life expectancy rates were lower, it was not unusual for some states in the USA to regard 14 as a marrying age. Galactus (with whom I am also in agreement in that loli does not do anything for me... although for those of us who think that way, we are also aware of the uncomfortable moments we catch ourselves when we see photos or ads of very young teenagers — whose ages we are not aware of at first glance — who are made up to look like twenty-year-olds) was merely pointing out the arbitrariness of all of this, in his two first very intelligently crafted posts. It's one thing to make a point in theory or to make an argument, and another to take it literally — Galactus undoubtedly would not hear of allowing an age of consent for something as ridiculously young as 13; he was simply offering his usual incisive food for thought. And, of course, Electromog fully understood that as well, when he made his most intelligent counterpoint. (Sigh!) Complex issues, indeed.

.

 

[CodeGeek]

Hm, seems the discussion switch from "when it is legal to appear in porn" to "when it is legal to have sex"...

 

[needs more loli]

Is there a law that says you can't have sex until a certain age? If two 10 year olds decide to go at it I don't think there is a law against that, at least none I've ever heard of. However, I'm sure their parents would be furious.

Also, everyone seems to be perplexed by people who like younger girls, but what about the other end of the spectrum: mature women. This genre is surprisingly very popular in JAV. Why do people like mature JAV? No offense, but out of shape old ladies do absolutely nothing for me, actually I find it kind of gross, just as you find lolis to be gross. I don't really expect an answer, I'm just trying to put things into perspective: please understand that loli fans like me are just as perplexed by people who like mature women as you are of us. Also that when you try to put it into words, it's very difficult to say why exactly you like what you like.

 

[jugulear]

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(You're right, Codegeek... please bear with it! No doubt this thread will get back on track, soon... although what is being tossed around now is not that unrelated, either.)

(And in most countries, there is undoubtedly no "minimum age" law for people to have sex. There is only a law, and rightly so, against folks who have sex with those legally determined as under-aged. Although, in my opinion, women should not be held as liable for such laws... because women having sex with me when I was a teen-ager would have been doing me a great favor. Heck, women having sex with me now are still doing me great favors.)

Well, gee, Needs More Loli! Fact is, few men go for the really over-the-hill and out-of-shape looking older ladies. The nice thing about JAV is that we've got them Japanese women, and their pot belly-free and minimal wrinkle-laden genetics often tilt the scale in the other direction. For example, having recently viewed Girls Caught Shoplifting and Punished [FAJS-016], I was delighted to see one of my faves, Satsuki Kirioka, doing the adorable "End-of-FA PRO" film "dance"..
.
Look at them curves! Look'a that there ass! (And I'm not even going to what really pulls me in at first, the face...) What MAN wouldn't go for that? (I think the "old lady" thought would only enter the minds of the very young, who think anything over the age of twenty-five would be pushing the standards of acceptability.)



Tsubomi was also in this movie, and I fast-forwarded through it. Not that I don't like the young ones (I am just not too crazy about Tsubomi), but the women who have been around the block a bit usually have a little more oomph to them, perhaps character, that adds to their sexiness -- in contrast to the young'uns, who surely have much going for them with youthful hardbodies and beauty, but they read often as shells, with no sexy depth to them.

As far as the really young ones, well, to each his own, of course, but the core reason for what makes women irresistible to men is the fact that they are... WOMEN!

.

 

[Supmop]

In many countries people reach the legal age when they get 18. At that age you're fully responsible for your actions. It only makes sense that at that age you're also free to work in the porn business. If the legal age would be e.g. 21 I would also expect that people there can do porn at that age and not younger. And it doesn't make sense that it would be legally okay to do porn at a younger age as it would mean that your free or able to decide that at a younger, but can't buy a car or house (because you're not able to sign the contract as you have only a limited contractual capability and not yet the full contractual capability), isn't it - if you look at it from a legal perspective.

yes you're right, to legally work in porn industry, they must reach legal age as adult, fully responsible for their actions, so can't be consider as child exploitation

Hm, seems the discussion switch from "when it is legal to appear in porn" to "when it is legal to have sex"...

yes, its two different cases

what I asked is legal age to perform sex as profession (performers in the porn industry)

 

[Supmop]

Also, everyone seems to be perplexed by people who like younger girls, but what about the other end of the spectrum: mature women. This genre is surprisingly very popular in JAV. Why do people like mature JAV? No offense, but out of shape old ladies do absolutely nothing for me, actually I find it kind of gross, just as you find lolis to be gross. I don't really expect an answer, I'm just trying to put things into perspective: please understand that loli fans like me are just as perplexed by people who like mature women as you are of us. Also that when you try to put it into words, it's very difficult to say why exactly you like what you like.

sorry no offence, but I would like to know, what do you think if you find out loli model is real underage girl lets say 12-14 years old doing hardcore actions ? and whats your reaction ?

 

[Supmop]

No, they allow 13 year olds to have sex. Not to act in porn. Galactus mentioned the option to make the minimum age for porn the same as the age of consent and I was just explaining the consequences of that.

ok, now I understand what you mean

 

[CodeGeek]

I only skimmed the thread, and I only have this to say: I freaking love incest JAV, it is my favorite genre in the entire world and I wish more JAV were incest themed. But real life incest is icky to me. It takes all my willpower not to get mad at those people in the incest threads who desperately want real incest.

Same like r*** movies. I like Attackers & Co., but I never wanted any women being really r***ing.

 

[needs more loli]

I only skimmed the thread, and I only have this to say: I freaking love incest JAV, it is my favorite genre in the entire world and I wish more JAV were incest themed. But real life incest is icky to me. It takes all my willpower not to get mad at those people in the incest threads who desperately want real incest.

Same like r*** movies. I like Attackers & Co., but I never wanted any women being really r***ing.

Exactly.. porn is not real life, it is a fantasy.
I too like r*** and incest... in JAV. In the real world that is a different story.

sorry no offence, but I would like to know, what do you think if you find out loli model is real underage girl lets say 12-14 years old doing hardcore actions ? and whats your reaction ?

Going with the same theme... if we are talking about JAV where an 18+ actress is playing a 12-14 year old then that would be pretty exciting. But if a real 12-14 year old is doing hardcore porn then that would be terrible.

 

[needs more loli]

sorry no offence, but I would like to know, what do you think if you find out loli model is real underage girl lets say 12-14 years old doing hardcore actions ? and whats your reaction ?

I think I misread your question the first time. Reading your question again it sounds like you're asking: "how would you feel if you found out an actress you like was secretly under-age?" for example, how would I feel if someone like Shuna Kagami (who is a favorite of mine) was actually 14 years old this whole time.

Well that's kind of like asking, "how would you feel if the actress you have been fapping to all this time was actually a man?"

Honestly I don't know how I would feel. I guess it would depend on the circumstance. If she was forced/blackmaied/etc into doing porn then I would feel pretty bad for her and angry at those that were responsible. If she did it on her own accord because she just really likes sex and doing porn then I'd probably be OK with it.

But in the end, I went into it thinking full well that she was over 18 and therefore in my mind that's how I treated it, so I have no guilty feelings.

 

[jugulear]

.
A teeny-weeny little weed of a point, beyond the great point of the forest:

"It doesn't make sense that it would be legally okay to do porn at a younger age as it would mean that your free or able to decide that at a younger, but can't buy a car or house (because you're not able to sign the contract as you have only a limited contractual capability and not yet the full contractual capability), isn't it - if you look at it from a legal perspective."

No disagreement with Codegeek; makes perfect sense, and in fact was the argument for the voting age to be lowered to 18 in the USA, since "If I'm old enough to go to war (in the days of conscription), I should be able to vote." On the other hand, this common-sense view can be broken, as well. For example, when 18 was determined to be the legal adult age, drinking became allowed. Then many more traffic accidents. Now, the drinking age in many jurisdictions has been raised to what it used to be, 21.

.

 

[galactus]

So many excellent observations made, everyone. Thanks for making this a civil and intelligent discourse.

@Needsmoreloli The reason why someone would enjoy seeing a mature woman have sex is because humans, in general, should have a relationship with those that are of a similar maturity and interest level. This is in part why we don't approve of a sexual relationship between a 15 yr old that could legally consent and a 30 yr old, but two 15 yr olds is considered a normal teenage experience.

As I've grown older I have found older women more attractive and younger women less attractive in general. I think this is to be expected and dare I say it, this should be ideal for society. This is not to say that I and other maturing males don't find younger women attractive, but it just starts to shift a bit. I guess it might be partially due to relationships are made up of more than appearances and if you have nothing in common with someone you will naturally find them less appealing. I think everyone should be able to understand why someone would find a mature woman attractive under normal circumstances, even if they currently don't feel that attraction for the body of a woman that has had the effects of time wear away at her youthful ideal beauty.

In addition there is the fetish aspect of enjoying a mature woman that is perhaps 20 years older than your age, say a 25 yr old enjoying 45+ women. You need look no further than the popularity of the MILF genre, and that should speak for itself as to the acceptableness of such a non-controversial fetish of finding "older" women sexually attractive.

I'm about honesty and taking the conversations to their logical conclusions, good or bad. So, please bear with me if it appears I'm defending one fetish and denigrating another: things in life are not all created equal and don't' deserve to have the same level of respect. Considering the freedom of speech most countries have will apply to your fetish, it doesn't mean that one intellectual idea, or in this case fetish, will be "better" than another. It is almost a certainty that a MILF fetish, for example, is less harmful for society than a loli fetish is. Which is NOT to say that the loli fetish lover is a bad person, or should feel bad about what turns them on, etc. It is just something we all should acknowledge and be honest about.

I was just looking through today's JAV releases and saw some recent loli covers which made me think. If it were possible that 13 yr olds were mentally mature and society approved of such a thing, would there be a level of disgust a human would naturally feel towards having sex with them? I would guess that there wouldn't. If people are honest with themselves I'm certain they would have to agree with the logic I put forth. If all of the reasons for sex with minors being immoral, wrong, etc. are taken away, then the result is sex with minors is normal and expected behavior. But, it isn't politically correct to harbor an opinion like that in public; society would not approve of anyone ever making the case of such a thought experiment which is understandable, but unfortunate.

This is a complex issue that needs the input of more loli lovers to get their perspective. Most of us seem to be in the camp of "It's not rocking my boat, but if it's your thing, I'm not mad at ya" and so it's a preaching to the choir feeling I'm getting at this point. Except for Needs more loli of course. So, it feels like we are subtly ganging up on him, which isn't our intention, obviously.

On that note, I think this diversion of the thread has more or less run it's course. Thanks again for the comments and I hope this conversation has been useful or enjoyable to some degree.

 

[Supmop]

I think I misread your question the first time. Reading your question again it sounds like you're asking: "how would you feel if you found out an actress you like was secretly under-age?" for example, how would I feel if someone like Shuna Kagami (who is a favorite of mine) was actually 14 years old this whole time.

Well that's kind of like asking, "how would you feel if the actress you have been fapping to all this time was actually a man?"

Honestly I don't know how I would feel. I guess it would depend on the circumstance. If she was forced/blackmaied/etc into doing porn then I would feel pretty bad for her and angry at those that were responsible. If she did it on her own accord because she just really likes sex and doing porn then I'd probably be OK with it.

But in the end, I went into it thinking full well that she was over 18 and therefore in my mind that's how I treated it, so I have no guilty feelings.

I mean not like in Tracy Lord case when we found out many years later that she started work as porn star since she still under 18

thanks for your answer

 

[princeali692]

If a girl turned out to be under aged and I fapped to her already I wouldn't feel disgusted. We are simply biologicalky wired to be attracted to any female who is fertile its just that society as a whole tends to condition young boys to sexualize women who are 18 and older more so. I would immediately delete that shit. Despite biology 13 year Olds are dumb as a barrel of monkeys which is why it is wrong to have sex with them.

Plus it can do damage to them mentally. Hypersexualized women who were sexualized at a young age do not make ideal waifus. Unless she is one of my favorite JAV idols who craves sperm, but that's another story. Statistics though verify that women who have sex with more partners and at earlier ages are much more likely to get divorced. And despite what the guy who wrote that salon article said about trying to get people to feel bad for him for not acting on his urges, society as a whole will never feel bad for you or accept you. The most you can hope for is that they make it easier to get therapy. The culture in America at least is not going to change for that any time soon. No one wants their kids fucking adults.

 

[needs more loli]

So many excellent observations made, everyone. Thanks for making this a civil and intelligent discourse.

@Needsmoreloli The reason why someone would enjoy seeing a mature woman have sex is because humans, in general, should have a relationship with those that are of a similar maturity and interest level. This is in part why we don't approve of a sexual relationship between a 15 yr old that could legally consent and a 30 yr old, but two 15 yr olds is considered a normal teenage experience.

As I've grown older I have found older women more attractive and younger women less attractive in general. I think this is to be expected and dare I say it, this should be ideal for society. This is not to say that I and other maturing males don't find younger women attractive, but it just starts to shift a bit. I guess it might be partially due to relationships are made up of more than appearances and if you have nothing in common with someone you will naturally find them less appealing. I think everyone should be able to understand why someone would find a mature woman attractive under normal circumstances, even if they currently don't feel that attraction for the body of a woman that has had the effects of time wear away at her youthful ideal beauty.

In addition there is the fetish aspect of enjoying a mature woman that is perhaps 20 years older than your age, say a 25 yr old enjoying 45+ women. You need look no further than the popularity of the MILF genre, and that should speak for itself as to the acceptableness of such a non-controversial fetish of finding "older" women sexually attractive.

I'm about honesty and taking the conversations to their logical conclusions, good or bad. So, please bear with me if it appears I'm defending one fetish and denigrating another: things in life are not all created equal and don't' deserve to have the same level of respect. Considering the freedom of speech most countries have will apply to your fetish, it doesn't mean that one intellectual idea, or in this case fetish, will be "better" than another. It is almost a certainty that a MILF fetish, for example, is less harmful for society than a loli fetish is. Which is NOT to say that the loli fetish lover is a bad person, or should feel bad about what turns them on, etc. It is just something we all should acknowledge and be honest about.

I was just looking through today's JAV releases and saw some recent loli covers which made me think. If it were possible that 13 yr olds were mentally mature and society approved of such a thing, would there be a level of disgust a human would naturally feel towards having sex with them? I would guess that there wouldn't. If people are honest with themselves I'm certain they would have to agree with the logic I put forth. If all of the reasons for sex with minors being immoral, wrong, etc. are taken away, then the result is sex with minors is normal and expected behavior. But, it isn't politically correct to harbor an opinion like that in public; society would not approve of anyone ever making the case of such a thought experiment which is understandable, but unfortunate.

This is a complex issue that needs the input of more loli lovers to get their perspective. Most of us seem to be in the camp of "It's not rocking my boat, but if it's your thing, I'm not mad at ya" and so it's a preaching to the choir feeling I'm getting at this point. Except for Needs more loli of course. So, it feels like we are subtly ganging up on him, which isn't our intention, obviously.

On that note, I think this diversion of the thread has more or less run it's course. Thanks again for the comments and I hope this conversation has been useful or enjoyable to some degree.

I don't necessarily feel like I'm being ganged up on, In fact I enjoy the discussion. But I am a bit disheartened that I'm the only one speaking up. The lolita genre is massively popular so I'd love to hear what other fans think as well...
I do agree that your own age is a big factor in preferences. So I guess since I'm in my 20s (and often mistaken for much younger , damn you Asian genes), my mind is still wired for youthful looking girls. Maybe as I get longer in years, older women will start to appeal to me, who knows...

 

[pikuseru]

The reason for the male's sexual preference for younger females is simply because the fact the females are born with a limited amount of eggs, and historically human life expectancy was much shorter than it is now. Furthermore, back in the day people had a lot more children than they typically do now. Even now in some developing countries which have still not urbanized and are still based on rural economies, larger families are still common, as children are still an economic asset (instead of being economic liability as in developed/urbanized countries). So in terms of producing large families, a younger wife becomes even more important, because it takes a lot of time to have like 10+ children (and I say this somewhat based on experience: my mom has 15 brothers and sisters).

That is why, historically, the males that were attracted to younger females had the advantage in terms of fathering children and passing on their genes. The males that prefered older females were not as successful in passing on their genes, and therefore this preference disappeared over time. This is an example of natural selection. The genes we have are largely the genes of the males that preferred younger females.

Basically, things that attract males are signs that females can be mothers. Youth is but one example. If a female is too old, there is a good chance she can't have children. But there are other attribure, like large breasts and wide hips. 13 year old is only the begining of when females start to develop such attributes. Around 16 yeard old is probably the ideal age from the male's POV. In most developed countries the age of consent is 16. The USA is just an exception.

Of course, as princeali692 mentioned, just because a girl is ready physically, doesn't necessarily mean she is ready mentally. That's probably the real reason for these age restrictions.

 

[Supmop]

I don't necessarily feel like I'm being ganged up on, In fact I enjoy the discussion. But I am a bit disheartened that I'm the only one speaking up. The lolita genre is massively popular so I'd love to hear what other fans think as well...
I do agree that your own age is a big factor in preferences. So I guess since I'm in my 20s (and often mistaken for much younger , damn you Asian genes), my mind is still wired for youthful looking girls. Maybe as I get longer in years, older women will start to appeal to me, who knows...

I'm sure you are not the only one in this forum
I wonder why other loli fans don't post their opinion ?