No surprises here....

[kharo88]

Ok... you made your point, and ... the topic drift continues...

Personally I think topic drifts are OK as long as posts remain at least minimally respectable, and it's a gradual drift, not totally non sequitur.

I admit my eurorant may be a bigger drift than normal... From the OP I wanted to rant about society intersection with porn/sex industry. At least I hope we (as porn/sex consumers) can have a more sensible view on sex, morals and gender issue.

But in the greater society there are deep and widespread distortions and isn't getting better, contrary to expectation from my youth, from end of Cold War. And this general reverse-progression in economy, politics and society is similarly reflected in porn and sex. Or more specifically the OP (Hitomi Fujiwatever) is a study case of societal distortions inserting themselves into the porn world.

As for the drift into body building supplement industry... I'm totally lost.

It's all right, it wasn't a serious comment from my part. (I probably should have used smileys to indicate that...)

But let me just pitch in now in regards to the ads about the beach body and fitness and stuff:

I think it's safe to say that most men find lean women with a flat belly attractive (like that woman in the ad), and in my experience, most girls would also want to look like that woman. It's no surprise, then, that they would use someone like that for the ad, since that's what people in general consider to be attractive. Does that mean that the media tells you what's attractive or not? Well, yeah. Is that a bad thing? In a sense, yeah (poor Cyndi Wang - that's all I'll say for now). But the thing is, at some point people need to realise that they shouldn't be influenced by the media. You want to look like that woman in the ad? Then, like needs more loli said, go and work for it instead of criticising the ad. Don't want to look like that woman in the ad? That probably means that you're comfortable in your body, so why would you care? I think all the hate comes from people that want to look like that but they don't and probably aren't willing to work for it, so in frustration they just bash the ad. If they are truly comfortable being fat or whatever, then they should just disregard the ads, but also not take offence when people find something else attractive that's not them/that they don't have.

I agree that for women looking fit is mostly a question of just eating the right amount of food and maybe doing some cardio if needed, and yeah, men need to lift heavy to achieve a good physique, but the thing is, if you're a short, broader girl, you're always going to be a short, broader girl (think Ai Sayama, for example), no matter what you do, but if you're a man, you can work out and your body will look great eventually. And yes, don't fall for the fitness magazines and all those guys on steroids - if you want to look like them, go for it, of course, but you don't need to look like that to look great - most girls actually don't find them attractive. Do those images of those extremely buff guys put a pressure on you to be like them? Only if you let it. Just set a realistic goal and work towards it, forget about all the rest. For example, my ideal body would be Peter Mensah's from Spartacus (go watch it because it's the best series, ever!):

​

Does he have as much muscle mass as those guys on magazine covers? Not nearly, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't look absolutely fantastic. So yeah, just make up your own mind and ignore the media.

At the end of this rant, let me post a couple Cyndi Wang photos, to show you what I think is the ideal body for a girl (the ideal everything, really ). Unfortunately, I don't have any photos of her in bikini, but hopefully you'll get a good idea about her body and proportions anyway! (The first two are after her plastic surgery, so just don't look at her face - it's not like you could on the second one, anyway).

​

And I know that not many of you will agree with me. For example, I bet that most of you (all of you?) imagine way bigger boobs when thinking about the ideal female body. But that's all right and that doesn't mean that she (or any woman) should get a breast enlargement. Although Jolin Tsai did. But I don't care about Jolin Tsai. I only care about Cyndi Wang.

(Originally this was the part where I linked another 5 photos of her, but I know that I'm already pushing it...)

 

[pikuseru]

Brotein world is privately owned.

Again, you were comparing an advertisement on public property to a front cover of a magazine that is privately owned.

Ad. Public.

Magazine cover. Not an ad. Not public property.

You derailed this thread for nothing.

You statement that "using women that aren't beef goblins on adverts is now forbidden in the obesity capital of europe" is objectively wrong. Even if the City of London wanted to ban ALL fit women from ads (they didn't, they only banned the Protein World ads) they could only ban it from their properties (such as TfL in this case). Not from private properties, or from TV, or from magazines, and so on.

 

[Ghostbird]

I brought up the supplement industry as example of missleading advertising towards men and how politicians never seen too have any problem with it, they are even the reason why it exist thanks to laws making prescription for size illegal.




And I agree that this really derailed so I'm going to stop here.

 

[kharo88]

I keep accidentally clicking on this thread thinking maybe it will have something to do with discussion of JAV, but nope just 3 pages of angry "Men's rights" rants.

I keep purposefully clicking on this thread thinking that maybe people liked my posts about Cyndi Wang, but nope, everyone's got bad taste here, it seems.

 

[ding73ding]

OK... looks like everyone has done airing his grievances.

Let me try to make some sense for topic drift/OT/argument/trolling/moderation here.

In general I am against censorship or over-policing in most forums. Especially Akiba Online isn't exactly the busiest of forums, if lots of people feel that his/er post might be policed or censored or moderated, it's going to discourage participation.

So is it possible to keep a free and open conversation without too much moderation AND also minimize annoyance/offense to the majority of AO forum visitors? I think we can.

I'm notorious for drifting topics, so mea culpa. But I try to ALWAYS keep the drift distance manageable, each of my post still maintain a connection to the opening post. Actually I think I can always drift the topic back to the OP without much effort.

If many posts in a row have gone so OT that most ppl can't make sense of the relation to the OP, then there's a problem and hopefully the 2 or 3 participants of the OT conversation would be considerate to other visitor, noticed that it's gone uninteresting to most people clicking into this forum or thread and take the conversation somewhere else. Leave a link in here, in case any bystanders also want to follow the new topic.

For Cyndi Wong, I think @kharo88 is actually a little bit more guilty than others in going OT. The bodybuilding stuffs... yeah it's more disruptive maybe, due to the large number of long posts, but at least it DID come out of the OP (via some topic drift) and it could hook back to the OP somehow. But Cyndi Wong came out of nowhere, and can go nowhere back to OP, this topic isn't even about fav idols by any means. And you didn't even have a sparring partner... at least I understand the other guys feel that an argument isn't settled yet and kept going back and forth... I understand you are trying to point out some posts being annoyingly OT, but expressing that by doubling down on annoyingly OT posts yourself... that's a bit uncool. Not trying to single you out or anything... you don't have to accept my view. I just like this (admittedly) small community to think about OT or etiquette on here.

As for the bodybuilding stuffs... I really am not following what the argument is about... so jumbled... I just want to say one thing that kinda hook back to the OP: both cases we have some business that exploit certain weakness of either male or female customers or workers. But the mainstream society seems to take a biased view how much males vs. females need protection or decision made for them. So abusive employment practice or body-shaming ads targeting males are ok because society thinks that men can or should be able to take it, handling himself, make his own decision. But women, because of what? They are stupid? Weak? Women see an "unrealistic" body in yellow bikini, they would go and have an eating disorder. Or a woman can't handle her money problems and/or family pressure and so her making 100 porn videos is a kind of crime against her human right or free will or something.

 

[kharo88]

Not trying to single you out or anything...

Oh, it's all right, you can single me out all you want. You can report me to the mods. You can burn down my house, kill my family and skin me alive. I don't care.

But this:

Cyndi Wong

Wong

o

I can never forgive!

(So... you're from HK, huh?)

But fooling around aside, you're definitely right! I do tend to mention Cyndi Wang whenever I get a chance, whether it's off topic or not, although I do try to make it somewhat connected to the OP or to the post(s) before. This time it was clear to me that we weren't going to go back to discussing what the OP was about, so I just kept posting about her - but note how I offered my view on the other off topic er, topic... and again tried to tie her in. So yeah, I do my best to make it look as smooth as possible!

Here's a secret about how I think, though: to me, everything is off topic but Cyndi Wang. Because... Cyndi Wang.

On a more serious note, yeah, I know that non-Japanese idols are not allowed on Akiba-Online, but hey, I've gotten away with it so far... But if you guys find it annoying, either just tell me directly or report it to the mods and I'm sure they'll take action! And yeah, I'm totally serious about this! No hard feelings, I promise!