As someone who hated Evangelion but loves Haruhi (including Endless Eight), I find myself conflicted by your comic.
Suzumiya Haruhi Season 2
- Thread starter Sakunyuusha
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I wrote this reply to that chap from last night. The idea only just came to me right now, but -- forgive my arrogance -- I think I've hit the nail spot on the head:
I had to tweak the words downward a bit when I posted it on Youtube, otherwise it wouldn't have fit the max character limit, but more or less this is the same message. LOL if one of you is the guy I was bickering with last night!
But now I feel I've realized the full reason behind Kyoto Animation's actions. What I said before still holds true: they are showcasing their studio's animation and directorial prowess, yes; but the main thing is that they're deliberately forcing the fans to grow bored with Haruhi such that her disappearance holds more meaning.
Yeah. That sounds pretty arrogant. And maybe it's really friggin' obvious to people too. ^_^; But I only realized it just now, and I haven't yet seen anybody else talking about KyoAni deliberately boring us as per their preparations for TDoSH.
I had to tweak the words downward a bit when I posted it on Youtube, otherwise it wouldn't have fit the max character limit, but more or less this is the same message. LOL if one of you is the guy I was bickering with last night!
But now I feel I've realized the full reason behind Kyoto Animation's actions. What I said before still holds true: they are showcasing their studio's animation and directorial prowess, yes; but the main thing is that they're deliberately forcing the fans to grow bored with Haruhi such that her disappearance holds more meaning.
Yeah. That sounds pretty arrogant. And maybe it's really friggin' obvious to people too. ^_^; But I only realized it just now, and I haven't yet seen anybody else talking about KyoAni deliberately boring us as per their preparations for TDoSH.
I hope they're really making all this like a preparation for TDoSH, there must be a plan behind all this, right?
If it is a good plan or not, I can't tell yet.
uzzled:Only in hindsight will any of us be able to. If the fans can forgive and forget, then whether or not Kyoto Animation had big plans for this stretched-out story arc it won't matter. Vice versa, if the fans cannot forgive Kyoto Animation for this, then it doesn't matter how artistic a move it was or how motivated it was.
Right now a lot of fans are rejecting my theories because they sound like conspiracy theory hogwash and have no proof to back them up. And maybe that is all they are. Who among us can say for certain? But I have no doubt that if my theories turn out to be correct that while I shan't be getting any apologies from the douchebags on Youtube, Kyoto Animation most definitely will. I think the fanbase is just anxiously awaiting confirmation that a third season of Haruhi is slated for immediate or near-immediate release following the conclusion of Season 2. If it's not, and the best Kyoto Animation can offer is "we'll get to work on it straight away!", I think they're fucked.
Right now a lot of fans are rejecting my theories because they sound like conspiracy theory hogwash and have no proof to back them up. And maybe that is all they are. Who among us can say for certain? But I have no doubt that if my theories turn out to be correct that while I shan't be getting any apologies from the douchebags on Youtube, Kyoto Animation most definitely will. I think the fanbase is just anxiously awaiting confirmation that a third season of Haruhi is slated for immediate or near-immediate release following the conclusion of Season 2. If it's not, and the best Kyoto Animation can offer is "we'll get to work on it straight away!", I think they're fucked.
Episode 7 wasn't too bad. What it lacked in new camera angles and itty bitty bits of new dialogue, it made up for with new costume designs.
........ lol, yeah, it wasn't fun to watch. ^_^;
Two more episodes to go! Episode 8 (#7 of the Endless Eight arc) and then Episode 9 (#8 of the Endless Eight arc). After that, we should be done with Endless Eight. Maybe. Possibly. With any luck. ;D
I still don't think it's nearly as bad as people are making it out to be. But yeah, the honeymoon is over even for me. ^_^; The next new episode -- which should be the last Endless Eight episode in which Kyon fails to do what he has to do -- is going to be really painful. XD But at least once we get that one out of the way the one to come next will be the first Endless Eight episode since the second one of the arc (Episode #3) with a major plot deviation.
........ lol, yeah, it wasn't fun to watch. ^_^;
Two more episodes to go! Episode 8 (#7 of the Endless Eight arc) and then Episode 9 (#8 of the Endless Eight arc). After that, we should be done with Endless Eight. Maybe. Possibly. With any luck. ;D
I still don't think it's nearly as bad as people are making it out to be.
But yeah, the honeymoon is over even for me. ^_^; The next new episode -- which should be the last Endless Eight episode in which Kyon fails to do what he has to do -- is going to be really painful. XD But at least once we get that one out of the way the one to come next will be the first Endless Eight episode since the second one of the arc (Episode #3) with a major plot deviation.Just watched Episode 8. Suffice to say, the lack of hubbub should have already tipped you off as it did me that this was another recap episode. What's most frustrating, however, is the lack of a sneak peek for next week's episode. It would have been nice if we had some idea as to when Episode 9 was going to air (soon? a month from now?) so we could at least anticipate whether or not the eight-episodes-of-Endless-Eight theory was to prove correct or not.
Now we have no other choice but to wait and see. :|
I've said it before, though, and I'll say it again: what more proof do people need that this is Kyoto Animation's way of telling the fans that Season 2 is more like "Season 1.5" and that Season 3 is going to be the (quote unquote) "real" Season 2? and that it's going to air promptly after Haruhi's (in-book) calendar return?
Now we have no other choice but to wait and see. :|
I've said it before, though, and I'll say it again: what more proof do people need that this is Kyoto Animation's way of telling the fans that Season 2 is more like "Season 1.5" and that Season 3 is going to be the (quote unquote) "real" Season 2? and that it's going to air promptly after Haruhi's (in-book) calendar return?
Somebody on Wikipedia claims that the newest episode aired on August 7th in Japan (i.e. today, Japan time) and that it ends the story's arc. Here's the Wikipedia page.
There are spoilers, naturally.[hide]
Could just be somebody being a troll, but it should be very, very easy to confirm.
Here is some pretty convincing proof. Screencaps galore.
There are spoilers, naturally.[hide]
[/hide]
Could just be somebody being a troll, but it should be very, very easy to confirm.
Here is some pretty convincing proof. Screencaps galore.
I'm not sure if I should laugh, or cry. But I know one thing, I'm pretty disgusted with the ending.
[hide]For starters, it's the same fucking episode... again!. Well, sort of. Obviously the last five minutes of it are the ending of this arc (finally), but not even the last episode is safe from repeating the same bullshit over again. When I said I didn't know if I should laugh or cry? I guess the answer was laugh, because that's what I did. I couldn't believe I was seeing the same shit again.
And the ending? That may have pissed me off even more. Kyon finally comes up with the answer to stop this cycle from repeating and it's.... because they didn't do their homework? Really? No offense to Sakun, who as I recall came up with this theory a while back. Even then I thought "well that's stupid. I hope that isn't the case", but it is. Really? That's the reason they repeated the same days over and over again for over 15000 times? And then Haruhi acting like a bitch when Kyon came up with the idea... uhg, it was just too much to bear.
Then again, we're all aware at this point of how much I hate Endless Eight. So could it have ever have been salvaged for me? I think I could've at least enjoyed the ending. I'm not exactly sure what would have had to happen in order for me to enjoy it, but there are certainly plenty of things more interesting than homework being unfinished... which is also Haruhi's fault to begin with because she wanted to do all this summer time bullshit instead of letting them have a few days to do their homework.[/hide]
Uhg... it just really pisses me off. And I'm sure Sakun couldn't disagree more. It should be interesting to see if I'll even enjoy the rest of this season, or if this whole experience will have just left a sour taste in my mouth that'll ruin the rest of it for me.
/nerdrage
[hide]For starters, it's the same fucking episode... again!. Well, sort of. Obviously the last five minutes of it are the ending of this arc (finally), but not even the last episode is safe from repeating the same bullshit over again. When I said I didn't know if I should laugh or cry? I guess the answer was laugh, because that's what I did. I couldn't believe I was seeing the same shit again.
And the ending? That may have pissed me off even more. Kyon finally comes up with the answer to stop this cycle from repeating and it's.... because they didn't do their homework? Really? No offense to Sakun, who as I recall came up with this theory a while back. Even then I thought "well that's stupid. I hope that isn't the case", but it is. Really? That's the reason they repeated the same days over and over again for over 15000 times? And then Haruhi acting like a bitch when Kyon came up with the idea... uhg, it was just too much to bear.
Then again, we're all aware at this point of how much I hate Endless Eight. So could it have ever have been salvaged for me? I think I could've at least enjoyed the ending. I'm not exactly sure what would have had to happen in order for me to enjoy it, but there are certainly plenty of things more interesting than homework being unfinished... which is also Haruhi's fault to begin with because she wanted to do all this summer time bullshit instead of letting them have a few days to do their homework.[/hide]
Uhg... it just really pisses me off. And I'm sure Sakun couldn't disagree more. It should be interesting to see if I'll even enjoy the rest of this season, or if this whole experience will have just left a sour taste in my mouth that'll ruin the rest of it for me.
/nerdrage
You have to really like time paradoxes to appreciate Endless Eight. Not being opposed to Haruhi x Kyon helps.
[hide]
The problem: they're stuck in a repeating loop.
The reason:
It can be fairly asked, "How did they get into the loop in the first place?" But I think the answer is pretty fair, as well: [hide]"Kyon's not the kind of guy to try to do all of that homework at the last second, nor is he the kind of guy to put his summer homework before Haruhi's entertainment -- since he knows first-hand that her being bored could spell doom for the entire world. Logically, the loop began when Kyon's 99.999999999% chance of not doing his summer homework came true. Later reiterations may have introduced a second motive for not doing the homework -- the time loop itself! why do your homework when time's just going to rewind? -- but Kyon was not aware that he was stuck in a time loop for the first n cycles, where n is an integer greater than 1, so we can assume that the loop began just as it continued -- with a boy who didn't want to do his homework, and didn't."[/hide]
It can also be fairly asked, "Well then, how did they get out of the loop?" But again, the answer is fairly straightforward: [hide]it would have to either be (a) the one time Kyon realizes what has to be done on August 28th or (b) the one time Kyon turns down Haruhi's invite and opts to stay home and do his homework instead. Suppose the odds of (b) are < 0.000000001%, while the odds of (a) are only 0.000001%. Both are slim. But (b) is more slim. (a) is more likely to occur. And indeed it did. Albeit only after 15,000+ cycles! Which is in keeping with our statistical expectations. We would expect that a boy who
(1) didn't want to do his homework in the first place, and
(2) places the fate of the world above his homework
would require many cycles through the loop before escaping it.
I like the fact that the ending is (a) and not (b) because, furthermore, it preserves Kyon's priorities. The Kyon who lives to see September 1 is still a Kyon who places the fate of the universe before summer homework. If Situation B had been what had happened, it would have been illogical character development. :\[/hide]
One can ask, "If the world is crafted unconsciously according to Haruhi's will, then why did this happen in the first place? Why not bypass the loop entirely?"
[hide]
I dunno. I like Endless Eight because there's so much we can consider from it.
[hide]- the philosophical (time loops and whatnot)
- the romantic (Haruhi x Kyon, Yuki x Kyon, Mikuru x Kyon, Itsuki x Kyon)
- the characters' personas shining through in their actions (esp. Kyon, as his "fluke" behavior the final time through the loop provides us with a baseline for what Kyon's normal behavior would be like, i.e. the opposite, i.e. what we saw happen every single other time)
- the suffering Yuki had to have gone through (if we follow Season 1's line of reasoning)[/hide]
[hide]
The problem: they're stuck in a repeating loop.
The reason:
- since they're stuck in a loop, Kyon sees no reason to finish his homework
- Haruhi has God-like powers, including the abilities to define Reality and to create, alter, or destroy anything in existence.
- Haruhi cares for Kyon.
- the previous two bullets --> unconsciously, Haruhi has crafted a universe which revolves not around her but around her honey bunny Kyon
- all previous bullets --> when Kyon encounters mock danger, Haruhi lets things play out. But when he encounters genuine danger, she unwittingly comes to his rescue. She does this completely unawares
It can be fairly asked, "How did they get into the loop in the first place?" But I think the answer is pretty fair, as well: [hide]"Kyon's not the kind of guy to try to do all of that homework at the last second, nor is he the kind of guy to put his summer homework before Haruhi's entertainment -- since he knows first-hand that her being bored could spell doom for the entire world. Logically, the loop began when Kyon's 99.999999999% chance of not doing his summer homework came true. Later reiterations may have introduced a second motive for not doing the homework -- the time loop itself! why do your homework when time's just going to rewind? -- but Kyon was not aware that he was stuck in a time loop for the first n cycles, where n is an integer greater than 1, so we can assume that the loop began just as it continued -- with a boy who didn't want to do his homework, and didn't."[/hide]
It can also be fairly asked, "Well then, how did they get out of the loop?" But again, the answer is fairly straightforward: [hide]it would have to either be (a) the one time Kyon realizes what has to be done on August 28th or (b) the one time Kyon turns down Haruhi's invite and opts to stay home and do his homework instead. Suppose the odds of (b) are < 0.000000001%, while the odds of (a) are only 0.000001%. Both are slim. But (b) is more slim. (a) is more likely to occur. And indeed it did. Albeit only after 15,000+ cycles! Which is in keeping with our statistical expectations. We would expect that a boy who
(1) didn't want to do his homework in the first place, and
(2) places the fate of the world above his homework
would require many cycles through the loop before escaping it.
I like the fact that the ending is (a) and not (b) because, furthermore, it preserves Kyon's priorities. The Kyon who lives to see September 1 is still a Kyon who places the fate of the universe before summer homework. If Situation B had been what had happened, it would have been illogical character development. :\[/hide]
One can ask, "If the world is crafted unconsciously according to Haruhi's will, then why did this happen in the first place? Why not bypass the loop entirely?"
[hide]
- Subconsciously, Haruhi secretly wanted to spend time with Kyon in a pampering role. All of their other playdates were the sort of things equals do, but Haruhi helping Kyon out with his homework would be her way of doing him a favor (so to speak), and what could make a girl happier than lending a helping hand to her crush? Especially after all the effort he put forth over the last 8 days to make this a summer she'd never forget?
- If Kyon completed his homework right off the bat, no luck for Haruhi. If he was stuck in the loop forever, no luck for Haruhi. The only solution was to have Kyon not do his homework, perpetually, and have him one day realize "oh shit I need to do it, please, Haruhi, can you help me?" so she could then say "well if you insist ;P" while secretly thinking "kya-hah ^-^ :3".
- With the exception of Nagato Yuki, none of the SOS Dan or other citizens of Earth suffered as a result of going through the loop over 15,000 times.
- This adventure provided Kyon and the other members of the SOS Dan, possibly excepting Nagato Yuki, with a fun story to tell.
- Potentially, the 15,000+ years afforded to Nagato Yuki would have allowed her to thoroughly study Earth in its entirety. Geology. Biology. Physics. Meteorology. You name it, you got it. She's a special girl, but she's no God, nor are her bosses. If either of them were, they wouldn't be outmaneuvered by Haruhi's subconscious, now would they? Yuki needs x amount of time to read y amount of material, where neither x nor y are less than or equal to 0. Conclusion? Giving her all of that free time to study up was sort of a gift in its own way.
- Then again, one does have to admit that if Yuki became lonely/bored by being alone for 3 years (according to Season 1) that 595 years would be rather cruel.
- Then again, Haruhi tends to do somewhat cruel things to Mikuru, whom she perceives as Kyon's #1 love interest (and thus Haruhi's #1 competition), so perhaps the fate of poor Nagato Yuki was also an act of sabotage on Haruhi's subconscious's part, attempting to force Yuki to suffer the pain of being with Kyon for 595 years but him not remembering any of the cycles time after time after time again. Having Kyon approach Yuki, as if to say something to her, only to falter. Yuki desperately wanting to hear something, anything from her love Kyon besides the same tired words she's heard 15,000+ times over. And Yuki being sorely disappointed once more.
I dunno. I like Endless Eight because there's so much we can consider from it.
[hide]- the philosophical (time loops and whatnot)
- the romantic (Haruhi x Kyon, Yuki x Kyon, Mikuru x Kyon, Itsuki x Kyon)
- the characters' personas shining through in their actions (esp. Kyon, as his "fluke" behavior the final time through the loop provides us with a baseline for what Kyon's normal behavior would be like, i.e. the opposite, i.e. what we saw happen every single other time)
- the suffering Yuki had to have gone through (if we follow Season 1's line of reasoning)[/hide]
I'm hesitant to continue discussing this topic for a number of reasons. One, I don't want people to think that I'm trying to argue here. No, I'm just trying to express my opinion about Endless Eight, and now a few thoughts about Haruhi (the character) in light of Sakun's last reply. Secondly, even if people realize I'm just trying to express my opinion, speaking up about my opinion has gotten me in nothing but trouble lately. But, oh well. I'm going to keep on doing it anyway. With that said...
Endless Eight... again:
[hide] I do like Time Paradoxes though, and I do like the idea that the world in Haruhi revolves around Kyon. That's not really my problem. My problem with the ending was that it was something as simple as Kyon not doing his homework that caused this whole paradox. At least, that was my problem. But after your last post, and after thinking about it a bit. I think there's a little more to the ending than that. It's still nothing epic, so I still don't consider it a big payoff for the rest of Endless Eight. But it's given me something to think about at least.
My problem with Endless Eight remains the same as it is for many people. You essentially watch the same episode over and over again eight times. If Endless Eight was actually about three or hell, maybe even four episodes long I think something as "simple" as Endless Eight's ending would've been fine. If I stop and think about that, it's pretty much par for the course when it comes to this series. <This section cut out, because I thought I knew what the series was about, but now I'm starting to wonder>
I pretty much understood what happened, but I think why it happened is open to debate. We understand that it has something to do with homework. But, what specifically? I think you're onto something when you say Haruhi wanted to spend time with Kyon. Though I'm not sure she necessarily wanted to help him with his homework. I think she just wanted to have a study group. Think about it - it's another popular "summer activity" we see it a lot in slice of life school anime, and I'm assuming that it's probably something popular to do in Japan. It certainly doesn't seem like Haruhi does a damn thing to help them with it either considering her and Little Sister are goofing off while the others are doing their work. But maybe she does help them and we just don't see it. Which I guess would fit in with your theory that she wanted to help him... so whatever. Maybe we are in agreement here, but I just approached it from a different way.
The ending conversation between Kyon and Itsuki makes things complicated. Itsuki seems to think Haruhi is so smart that she couldn't even comprehend how others would have trouble getting their work done. If that's the case why would the idea of a study group even come to mind? Or why would she think to help Kyon with his homework? Does it really go back to it all being about Kyon simply completing his homework? Regardless of how he does it? Unless Itsuki is wrong, I think it puts holes in our theories. After all, If Haruhi didn't think Kyon needed help doing his homework, why would she be waiting for him to ask for help. I'll admit, I'm confused--
--then again, during each episode Kyon is surprised that Haruhi finished her homework, and reveals he hasn't. So she MUST know that he's either having trouble finishing it all, or just hasn't had the time to do it. So what the fuck Itsuki? How could she not know? Again, I'm confused.[/hide]
That aside. Now I'm really confused and need to establish something that will essentially change the entire way I feel about this series. So I should probably clear that up first before continuing with my rant.
Okay, I just had a breakdown here when you started going into some weird shit about Yuki in the end there. I thought I knew the basic idea of Haruhi: Haruhi is a girl with special powers that she herself isn't aware of. She is able to bend the world in any way according to how she feels. But now you bring up her subconscious, which admittedly I don't know too much about. So are you saying that her subconscious is all knowing? It knows what Yuki, Mikuru, and Itsuki are? It knows that it controls the world? Or am I misunderstanding?
Sorry if this seems stupid, but I've been liking, and talking about this series under the impressions that I knew what it was about. But now I'm really confused, and I think it's important that I clear this up. It seems weird that I would totally miss the point of the whole show, but ya never know. I could just be really stupid.
Endless Eight... again:
[hide] I do like Time Paradoxes though, and I do like the idea that the world in Haruhi revolves around Kyon. That's not really my problem. My problem with the ending was that it was something as simple as Kyon not doing his homework that caused this whole paradox. At least, that was my problem. But after your last post, and after thinking about it a bit. I think there's a little more to the ending than that. It's still nothing epic, so I still don't consider it a big payoff for the rest of Endless Eight. But it's given me something to think about at least.
My problem with Endless Eight remains the same as it is for many people. You essentially watch the same episode over and over again eight times. If Endless Eight was actually about three or hell, maybe even four episodes long I think something as "simple" as Endless Eight's ending would've been fine. If I stop and think about that, it's pretty much par for the course when it comes to this series. <This section cut out, because I thought I knew what the series was about, but now I'm starting to wonder
> I pretty much understood what happened, but I think why it happened is open to debate. We understand that it has something to do with homework. But, what specifically? I think you're onto something when you say Haruhi wanted to spend time with Kyon. Though I'm not sure she necessarily wanted to help him with his homework. I think she just wanted to have a study group. Think about it - it's another popular "summer activity" we see it a lot in slice of life school anime, and I'm assuming that it's probably something popular to do in Japan. It certainly doesn't seem like Haruhi does a damn thing to help them with it either considering her and Little Sister are goofing off while the others are doing their work. But maybe she does help them and we just don't see it. Which I guess would fit in with your theory that she wanted to help him... so whatever. Maybe we are in agreement here, but I just approached it from a different way.
The ending conversation between Kyon and Itsuki makes things complicated. Itsuki seems to think Haruhi is so smart that she couldn't even comprehend how others would have trouble getting their work done. If that's the case why would the idea of a study group even come to mind? Or why would she think to help Kyon with his homework? Does it really go back to it all being about Kyon simply completing his homework? Regardless of how he does it? Unless Itsuki is wrong, I think it puts holes in our theories. After all, If Haruhi didn't think Kyon needed help doing his homework, why would she be waiting for him to ask for help. I'll admit, I'm confused--
--then again, during each episode Kyon is surprised that Haruhi finished her homework, and reveals he hasn't. So she MUST know that he's either having trouble finishing it all, or just hasn't had the time to do it. So what the fuck Itsuki? How could she not know? Again, I'm confused.[/hide]
That aside. Now I'm really confused and need to establish something that will essentially change the entire way I feel about this series. So I should probably clear that up first before continuing with my rant.
Okay, I just had a breakdown here when you started going into some weird shit about Yuki in the end there. I thought I knew the basic idea of Haruhi: Haruhi is a girl with special powers that she herself isn't aware of. She is able to bend the world in any way according to how she feels. But now you bring up her subconscious, which admittedly I don't know too much about. So are you saying that her subconscious is all knowing? It knows what Yuki, Mikuru, and Itsuki are? It knows that it controls the world? Or am I misunderstanding?
Sorry if this seems stupid, but I've been liking, and talking about this series under the impressions that I knew what it was about. But now I'm really confused, and I think it's important that I clear this up. It seems weird that I would totally miss the point of the whole show, but ya never know. I could just be really stupid.
That was a fun read. I don't see why you feel so ashamed/uncomfortable with what you put down. ; I'm glad you submitted the post. And having read it all, I'll say that you are most definitely not stupid, so put that idea out of your head.
A, I've not read the books. Or rather, I've struggled through Book 1 (raw) and struggled through a few random chapters from Books 2, 3, and (thanks to Endless Eight now) 5. My knowledge of the future events in the books basically stems from two things: fanart online, and official art at the front of each of the books. (I own all nine.)
B, I'm not meaning to confuse you with my talk of "Haruhi's subconscious." It's by no means a 2nd character. Think of it as if you and I were talking about one another. And I said "Ben's subconscious." There isn't an "ebil Ben" who plots and ploys inside of your head! Subconscious just means subconscious. Like ... doing something without being aware that you're doing it, but your actions being in line with your genuine desires.
C, I don't know that it's been proven or whatnot, but my personal take on Haruhi is the Amnesiatic God model:
Long quote. But now you see why I wanted to segregate it out, since it's not so much about Endless Eight but rather my take on Haruhi as a character. I don't claim this is a correct theory or is an original theory. Itsuki more or less planted the seed in my brain in Season 1, as he did with so many other fans, when he specified that Haruhi may well be God or a God-like being. And for all I know, this theory is debunked by chapters I've not yet been exposed to. But it's what I'm operating on right now. And given this theory, Endless Eight makes a whole lot of sense -- and was really not all that bad to watch 5 times in a row, though times 6-8 were a bit too much even for me -- because the repetition is necessary to really drive home the impact of the theory. Yuki's victimization at Haruhi's subconscious's hands. (Again! Not some gremlin in her brain! lol I'm talking "subconscious" as in an aconscious entity.) Haruhi's determination to have fun in the journey and not the destination itself.
I mean, Endless Eight -- in its own way -- is a perfect summary of the entire series. It is the epitome of "a God-like being wanting to savor the journey by never reaching the destination." That's exactly what almost happened, and did happen for 595 years. And it's pretty much the explanation for all of her behavior in every other single episode. She always has fun during the adventure and never really reaches the end of it, even if she may think she does.
; I'm glad you submitted the post. And having read it all, I'll say that you are most definitely not stupid, so put that idea out of your head. A, I've not read the books. Or rather, I've struggled through Book 1 (raw) and struggled through a few random chapters from Books 2, 3, and (thanks to Endless Eight now) 5. My knowledge of the future events in the books basically stems from two things: fanart online, and official art at the front of each of the books. (I own all nine.)
B, I'm not meaning to confuse you with my talk of "Haruhi's subconscious." It's by no means a 2nd character. Think of it as if you and I were talking about one another. And I said "Ben's subconscious." There isn't an "ebil Ben" who plots and ploys inside of your head! Subconscious just means subconscious. Like ... doing something without being aware that you're doing it, but your actions being in line with your genuine desires.
C, I don't know that it's been proven or whatnot, but my personal take on Haruhi is the Amnesiatic God model:
my own words said:
Long quote.
But now you see why I wanted to segregate it out, since it's not so much about Endless Eight but rather my take on Haruhi as a character. I don't claim this is a correct theory or is an original theory. Itsuki more or less planted the seed in my brain in Season 1, as he did with so many other fans, when he specified that Haruhi may well be God or a God-like being. And for all I know, this theory is debunked by chapters I've not yet been exposed to. But it's what I'm operating on right now. And given this theory, Endless Eight makes a whole lot of sense -- and was really not all that bad to watch 5 times in a row, though times 6-8 were a bit too much even for me -- because the repetition is necessary to really drive home the impact of the theory. Yuki's victimization at Haruhi's subconscious's hands. (Again! Not some gremlin in her brain! lol I'm talking "subconscious" as in an aconscious entity.) Haruhi's determination to have fun in the journey and not the destination itself.I mean, Endless Eight -- in its own way -- is a perfect summary of the entire series. It is the epitome of "a God-like being wanting to savor the journey by never reaching the destination." That's exactly what almost happened, and did happen for 595 years. And it's pretty much the explanation for all of her behavior in every other single episode. She always has fun during the adventure and never really reaches the end of it, even if she may think she does.
Hm, that was interesting. You've clearly taken time to think about this. I wonder how much of it is true though, and I wonder if the Author even knows. As you said, the truth might have already been revealed in later chapters. Hell I'm not even sure if the novels finished yet or not.
Now that you've cleared up my doubts about the whole subconscious thing though, I'm not sure how much I've my rant I can salvage.
Basically, I was starting to come to the realization that Haruhi was a tsundere like character. At least, she does tsundere stuff. She likes Kyon, but hides it by constantly being mean to him. And she gets upset whenever he swoons over Mikuru, and takes this out on her by doing mean things to her as well. I'm pretty sure we see a softer side to her too, but I'd have to go back and check the first season to be sure. My point though is she acts exactly like the sort of character I don't like. Yet for years I've excused her from it because she's such an interesting character.
However when you started to theorize that perhaps she was also causing Endless Eight as a way to get back at Yuki... well that got me thinking. Maybe Haruhi really is just a bitch. And then when you mentioned her "subconscious", I thought "well maybe that's the bitch". Hence my confusion.
Though from the sounds of it, regardless if you're theory about Haruhi is correct, she doesn't really acknowledge having caused Yuki to suffer. So she's back to just being a tsundere sort of character I guess. Maybe I'm way off on that impression too. Maybe I don't have an accurate idea of what a tsundere really is, but her actions certainly mirror that of characters that have been labeled tsundere. So, I dunno.
Not much of a rant I guess. Just me trying to come to terms with if I liked Haruhi anymore or not. And if I didn't would I still like the show? Probably less so than before, but I'd still like it.
I guess I'll have to see when I re-watch the series. It never bothered me before, so I'm not sure why I'm having these thoughts now. I guess just because I started to think Haruhi was evil for some reason. I mean, if you think about it, if she knowingly almost caused the world to end, or made time repeat itself just because she was bored. That'd be a pretty evil thing to do.
Then again, if this is all just a world she created for her amusement in the first place. Would it really matter what she did to it and it's "people"? I better stop there.
/rambling
Now that you've cleared up my doubts about the whole subconscious thing though, I'm not sure how much I've my rant I can salvage.
Basically, I was starting to come to the realization that Haruhi was a tsundere like character. At least, she does tsundere stuff. She likes Kyon, but hides it by constantly being mean to him. And she gets upset whenever he swoons over Mikuru, and takes this out on her by doing mean things to her as well. I'm pretty sure we see a softer side to her too, but I'd have to go back and check the first season to be sure. My point though is she acts exactly like the sort of character I don't like. Yet for years I've excused her from it because she's such an interesting character.
However when you started to theorize that perhaps she was also causing Endless Eight as a way to get back at Yuki... well that got me thinking. Maybe Haruhi really is just a bitch. And then when you mentioned her "subconscious", I thought "well maybe that's the bitch". Hence my confusion.
Though from the sounds of it, regardless if you're theory about Haruhi is correct, she doesn't really acknowledge having caused Yuki to suffer. So she's back to just being a tsundere sort of character I guess. Maybe I'm way off on that impression too. Maybe I don't have an accurate idea of what a tsundere really is, but her actions certainly mirror that of characters that have been labeled tsundere. So, I dunno.
Not much of a rant I guess. Just me trying to come to terms with if I liked Haruhi anymore or not. And if I didn't would I still like the show? Probably less so than before, but I'd still like it.
I guess I'll have to see when I re-watch the series. It never bothered me before, so I'm not sure why I'm having these thoughts now. I guess just because I started to think Haruhi was evil for some reason. I mean, if you think about it, if she knowingly almost caused the world to end, or made time repeat itself just because she was bored. That'd be a pretty evil thing to do.
Then again, if this is all just a world she created for her amusement in the first place. Would it really matter what she did to it and it's "people"? I better stop there.
/rambling
That's just it though: even if it is a plot hole (since an omniscient being ought to know all aspects of its future, and Haruhi, if she was God who gave Himself amnesia, would have still been a non-amnesiatic God at some point!), the show is running with the following premise:
Haruhi is completely ignorant of two things:
(1) that she has super powers period, and
(2) that her super powers are causing distress to others
If she were aware that Yuki had suffered as badly as Yuki did, then I don't think Haruhi would have done it. Logically, this means one or both of two things:
(1) either Haruhi is ignorant of Yuki's suffering, or
(2) Yuki didn't really suffer all that much
Both could be true. But even if #2's false, if #1 is still true, then it somewhat excuses Haruhi from the "evil bitch" status you're fretting over, as a fan of hers. She isn't an evil bitch. She didn't intend to do evil bitch things. For all intents and purposes, she genuinely believes that she is a Japanese high school girl with no special powers. Sure, she's beautiful, but you're born with that. Sure, she's good at everything she tries to do, but she chalks that up to various factors none of which have anything to do with her being supernaturally gifted. She wishes to be special like a time traveler, like an alien, like a psychic, like a slider. She doesn't realize that she in fact transcends all of these paranormal entities and is God Almighty. She doesn't realize it (plot hole or not) by virtue of her own self-inflicted ignorance. If the Almighty is infinitely powerful, then it follows that he can defy logic, and it also follows that he can make himself no longer omniscient. (Arguably, this means he's made himself no longer an all-powerful God. But again, an all-powerful being is illogical and therefore could probably do acts which defy logic itself. This would include being able to make himself non-omnipotent and yet omnipotent at the very same time. It's illogical. But then again, to be omnipotent is in itself illogical.)
I think Haruhi genuinely does go out of her way (consciously) to interfere with Kyon x Mikuru. I don't think she consciously interferes with either Kyon x Yuki or Kyon x Itsuki, though. Any interferences with those romances have thus far been entirely unconscious. They've been "the Universe conspiring against them"-sort of things, "them" meaning KxY and KxI, of course. Like ...
- Season 1, video game battle episode. Kyon seems to be a little cozy with Yuki when he encourages her to join the PC Club. In fact, it's not until this moment that Haruhi realizes that Kyon was playing the game with more of a focus on Yuki than on Haruhi. Subconsciously, Haruhi opposes Yuki's joining the PC Club because it's a suggestion of Kyon's and she feels it'll advance Kyon x Yuki. Consciously, she opposes it for the very obvious reason of being greedy (lol) and feeling she laid claim to Yuki first. In the end, Kyon ignores Haruhi's protestations and asks Nagato once again. And Nagato agrees. Basically, Kyon shut Haruhi out of the conversation. Subconsciously, this doubtless means that Haruhi notices Kyon cares more about Yuki than about her (i.e. Haruhi).
- Season 1, finale, Kyon was the only person Haruhi saved. Not Itsuki, not Mikuru, not Yuki, not even Kyon's little sister. Just Kyon. Is this because she's an evil bitch? No. Remember: she did this all subconsciously. She genuinely thought that she was having a dream. She genuinely thought that she was not in control of what was going on. Yeah, she did sort of have a selfish bitch moment when she tells Kyon that the two of them can just make a new world and then Kyon stops running with her and declares that he loves this world and doesn't want it to vanish. But it's not like she consciously thought to herself, "Fuck the world: they can all die so long as I get Kyon." I really don't think she was in touch with what was going on in that sequence, or just how much she was in direct control of it.
- Season 1, ENOZ band performance. Again, I don't think she intended for those two innocent girls to get injured. Rather, the Universe that Haruhi has crafted -- one which centers around Kyon #1 and her #2 -- was just following its rules, and those rules led it to injure the girls so that Haruhi could perform a smashing performance on the electric guitar in front of her ideal boyfriend. To her credit, she's very modest and apologetic both onstage and after the performance. She gives all credit to the four original band members. But facts are facts: those girls suffered (i.e. they missed out on their graduation performance they'd been working so hard for) so that Haruhi could have the opportunity to impress Kyon. It's not some evil poultergeist at work when I say "she subconsciously did this," but rather ... it's like it's the Universe itself. The Universe itself is out to get people insofar as it's out to promote Haruhi x Kyon. So if there's any obstacle standing in the path of Haruhi x Kyon, then the Universe is engineered to deal with it.
If that makes Haruhi cruel, then ... I suppose we could also say that God is cruel, too. ^_^; If she really has been modeled after the JudaeoChristian God, then it makes sense that she'd have some pretty black-and-white standards on certain things, e.g. having people sacrifice their own children to prove their fidelity to the Lord.
Haruhi is completely ignorant of two things:
(1) that she has super powers period, and
(2) that her super powers are causing distress to others
If she were aware that Yuki had suffered as badly as Yuki did, then I don't think Haruhi would have done it. Logically, this means one or both of two things:
(1) either Haruhi is ignorant of Yuki's suffering, or
(2) Yuki didn't really suffer all that much
Both could be true. But even if #2's false, if #1 is still true, then it somewhat excuses Haruhi from the "evil bitch" status you're fretting over, as a fan of hers. She isn't an evil bitch. She didn't intend to do evil bitch things. For all intents and purposes, she genuinely believes that she is a Japanese high school girl with no special powers. Sure, she's beautiful, but you're born with that. Sure, she's good at everything she tries to do, but she chalks that up to various factors none of which have anything to do with her being supernaturally gifted. She wishes to be special like a time traveler, like an alien, like a psychic, like a slider. She doesn't realize that she in fact transcends all of these paranormal entities and is God Almighty. She doesn't realize it (plot hole or not) by virtue of her own self-inflicted ignorance. If the Almighty is infinitely powerful, then it follows that he can defy logic, and it also follows that he can make himself no longer omniscient. (Arguably, this means he's made himself no longer an all-powerful God. But again, an all-powerful being is illogical and therefore could probably do acts which defy logic itself. This would include being able to make himself non-omnipotent and yet omnipotent at the very same time. It's illogical. But then again, to be omnipotent is in itself illogical.
)I think Haruhi genuinely does go out of her way (consciously) to interfere with Kyon x Mikuru. I don't think she consciously interferes with either Kyon x Yuki or Kyon x Itsuki, though. Any interferences with those romances have thus far been entirely unconscious. They've been "the Universe conspiring against them"-sort of things, "them" meaning KxY and KxI, of course. Like ...
- Season 1, video game battle episode. Kyon seems to be a little cozy with Yuki when he encourages her to join the PC Club. In fact, it's not until this moment that Haruhi realizes that Kyon was playing the game with more of a focus on Yuki than on Haruhi. Subconsciously, Haruhi opposes Yuki's joining the PC Club because it's a suggestion of Kyon's and she feels it'll advance Kyon x Yuki. Consciously, she opposes it for the very obvious reason of being greedy (lol) and feeling she laid claim to Yuki first. In the end, Kyon ignores Haruhi's protestations and asks Nagato once again. And Nagato agrees. Basically, Kyon shut Haruhi out of the conversation. Subconsciously, this doubtless means that Haruhi notices Kyon cares more about Yuki than about her (i.e. Haruhi).
- Season 1, finale, Kyon was the only person Haruhi saved. Not Itsuki, not Mikuru, not Yuki, not even Kyon's little sister. Just Kyon. Is this because she's an evil bitch? No. Remember: she did this all subconsciously. She genuinely thought that she was having a dream. She genuinely thought that she was not in control of what was going on. Yeah, she did sort of have a selfish bitch moment when she tells Kyon that the two of them can just make a new world and then Kyon stops running with her and declares that he loves this world and doesn't want it to vanish. But it's not like she consciously thought to herself, "Fuck the world: they can all die so long as I get Kyon." I really don't think she was in touch with what was going on in that sequence, or just how much she was in direct control of it.
- Season 1, ENOZ band performance. Again, I don't think she intended for those two innocent girls to get injured. Rather, the Universe that Haruhi has crafted -- one which centers around Kyon #1 and her #2 -- was just following its rules, and those rules led it to injure the girls so that Haruhi could perform a smashing performance on the electric guitar in front of her ideal boyfriend. To her credit, she's very modest and apologetic both onstage and after the performance. She gives all credit to the four original band members. But facts are facts: those girls suffered (i.e. they missed out on their graduation performance they'd been working so hard for) so that Haruhi could have the opportunity to impress Kyon. It's not some evil poultergeist at work when I say "she subconsciously did this," but rather ... it's like it's the Universe itself. The Universe itself is out to get people insofar as it's out to promote Haruhi x Kyon. So if there's any obstacle standing in the path of Haruhi x Kyon, then the Universe is engineered to deal with it.
If that makes Haruhi cruel, then ... I suppose we could also say that God is cruel, too. ^_^; If she really has been modeled after the JudaeoChristian God, then it makes sense that she'd have some pretty black-and-white standards on certain things, e.g. having people sacrifice their own children to prove their fidelity to the Lord.
As for how the author should end the series ...
Honestly, if my own opinions are on the money and he's telling a story about the journey being what's fun and not so much the final destination, and he's specifically telling a story about a God who grew bored with getting everything His way so he deliberately crafted a world where he would always be chasing after his goals -- never quite reaching them, but never failing outright, either -- then there's no way for the books to end with any degree of finality. The last book would have to be one of two things:
(1) the last book the publisher bothers to publish, because people have grown tired with the series and are no longer reading the books, or
(2) the last book the author pens, and one which does not offer closure to the reader
If my theory is right -- if, if, if! -- then I can assure you that the author has 0% intention to tell you which girl (or gay) gets Kyon in the end. None of them will get Kyon, and Kyon will likewise get none of them. The series will have to end ambiguously, with Haruhi neither admitting defeat nor securing victory. When the final chapter of the final book ends, Kyon will still be pining for Mikuru, finding himself most emotionally attracted to Yuki, finding himself weirded out not so much by Itsuki himself but by Kyon's own feelings every time Itsuki has a Kyon x Itsuki gay moment (lol, like in the holding-your-breath contest in the swimming pool in Endless Eight), and last but certainly not least he'll find himself very torn over Haruhi. They have a very complex relationship. Superficially (i.e. what the school sees), she's dominant and he's submissive. Deeply (i.e. what even Haruhi may not be aware of), he's the one who's dominant and she's the one who's submissive. Haruhi calls the shots aloud, but she's nothing more than Kyon's megaphone since his desires are what become her desires. She loves him, so she wants him to be happy. This means not snuffing out the romantic competition. At the same time, she loves him, so she wants him to love her back. This means not giving in to the competition. It's an endless paradox.
And it means that the last book will do one of three things:
(1) respect the paradox and end with it,
(2) respect the paradox and attempt to end by removing it -- by removing Haruhi herself (e.g. maybe she remembers she's God again, who knows)
(3) disrespect the paradox and end the series with the sort of closure I just said wasn't going to happen.
#3 is what the publishers would want because it's what the most whiny and vocal of the buyers wants. But I think #1 is what the author himself wants the most. To paradoxically end the series by not ending it.
Honestly, if my own opinions are on the money and he's telling a story about the journey being what's fun and not so much the final destination, and he's specifically telling a story about a God who grew bored with getting everything His way so he deliberately crafted a world where he would always be chasing after his goals -- never quite reaching them, but never failing outright, either -- then there's no way for the books to end with any degree of finality. The last book would have to be one of two things:
(1) the last book the publisher bothers to publish, because people have grown tired with the series and are no longer reading the books, or
(2) the last book the author pens, and one which does not offer closure to the reader
If my theory is right -- if, if, if! -- then I can assure you that the author has 0% intention to tell you which girl (or gay) gets Kyon in the end. None of them will get Kyon, and Kyon will likewise get none of them. The series will have to end ambiguously, with Haruhi neither admitting defeat nor securing victory. When the final chapter of the final book ends, Kyon will still be pining for Mikuru, finding himself most emotionally attracted to Yuki, finding himself weirded out not so much by Itsuki himself but by Kyon's own feelings every time Itsuki has a Kyon x Itsuki gay moment (lol, like in the holding-your-breath contest in the swimming pool in Endless Eight), and last but certainly not least he'll find himself very torn over Haruhi. They have a very complex relationship. Superficially (i.e. what the school sees), she's dominant and he's submissive. Deeply (i.e. what even Haruhi may not be aware of), he's the one who's dominant and she's the one who's submissive. Haruhi calls the shots aloud, but she's nothing more than Kyon's megaphone since his desires are what become her desires. She loves him, so she wants him to be happy. This means not snuffing out the romantic competition. At the same time, she loves him, so she wants him to love her back. This means not giving in to the competition. It's an endless paradox.
And it means that the last book will do one of three things:
(1) respect the paradox and end with it,
(2) respect the paradox and attempt to end by removing it -- by removing Haruhi herself (e.g. maybe she remembers she's God again, who knows)
(3) disrespect the paradox and end the series with the sort of closure I just said wasn't going to happen.
#3 is what the publishers would want because it's what the most whiny and vocal of the buyers wants. But I think #1 is what the author himself wants the most. To paradoxically end the series by not ending it.
An easier way to approach what I talked about can be summed up by asking yourself these questions.
What would happen if Yuki gets Kyon?
What would happen if Mikuru gets Kyon?
What would happen if Itsuki gets Kyon?
What would happen if Haruhi gets Kyon?
What would happen if nobody gets Kyon nor can ever get Kyon?
What would happen if nobody gets Kyon but someone could possibly one day get Kyon?
The first three questions share the same answer: Haruhi would be distraught, disgusted, bored, etc and would erase Creation and start anew. (Season 1's finale except this time she finishes the job and doesn't bring Kyon along for the ride.)
The fourth question, funnily enough, means that Haruhi becomes bored and erases Creation. Even though she wants Kyon, it's the trying to get him that's the fun challenge for her. As a (once-)omnipotent being, the idea of having anything you want is common. Of course God has whatever He wants. He's God!! He wants it, He gets it! So for her, as God, the fun thing is to be presented with a genuine challenge. Take that challenge away and you take away Creation.
The fifth question is answered in the same fashion as the first three. If Haruhi becomes aware that she can never catch Kyon, she will end the world. She has to believe that she can get him, even if funnily enough they play at this game for trillions of years without her ever reaching him.
The sixth question is the only one which results in Creation's continued existence. If Haruhi doesn't yet have Kyon but believes she can obtain him, then the game's still afoot and there's no reason to erase the world.
This is why the author is stuck. He's boring the fans by having written nine books and having taken none of the romances anywhere beyond the superficially flirtatious. (No dates, no kisses, nothing. Well, a few kisses here or there [Season 1's last ep, also Adult Mikuru kissing Kyon on the cheek several times], but still no super-sexy kisses or anything. ;p) When fans read nine books that repeat the same romantic developments (or lack thereof) over and over again, they grow frustrated. It's just like the problem they have with the Endless Eight anime. Think about it! Endless Eight was told the "correct" way but the correct way also pissed off 99% of the fans. Similarly, the right way to write these books, given the premise put forward in the very first book, is to follow Question #6 that I wrote above. But once the readers become aware that Question #6 is the series' angle, their brains equate it to Question #5: they say, "Look, fuck the girl: I don't care if she doesn't ever catch on or if she does. We've caught on that you're never going to let any of the girls catch Kyon, and so we're bored."
It's all very ironic and all very philosophically amazing. The author has penned a popular series of books about a god whose boredom must be averted lest she destroy the world, and now that very same fictional world is confronted with real-life destruction at the hands of real-life bored fans. How does the author preserve the canon (i.e. keep Haruhi from getting bored) while at the same time satisfying human beings' desire to achieve closure?
It may be an impossible task. But I'm looking forward to what the author can come up with.
What would happen if Yuki gets Kyon?
What would happen if Mikuru gets Kyon?
What would happen if Itsuki gets Kyon?
What would happen if Haruhi gets Kyon?
What would happen if nobody gets Kyon nor can ever get Kyon?
What would happen if nobody gets Kyon but someone could possibly one day get Kyon?
The first three questions share the same answer: Haruhi would be distraught, disgusted, bored, etc and would erase Creation and start anew. (Season 1's finale except this time she finishes the job and doesn't bring Kyon along for the ride.)
The fourth question, funnily enough, means that Haruhi becomes bored and erases Creation. Even though she wants Kyon, it's the trying to get him that's the fun challenge for her. As a (once-)omnipotent being, the idea of having anything you want is common. Of course God has whatever He wants. He's God!! He wants it, He gets it! So for her, as God, the fun thing is to be presented with a genuine challenge. Take that challenge away and you take away Creation.
The fifth question is answered in the same fashion as the first three. If Haruhi becomes aware that she can never catch Kyon, she will end the world. She has to believe that she can get him, even if funnily enough they play at this game for trillions of years without her ever reaching him.
The sixth question is the only one which results in Creation's continued existence. If Haruhi doesn't yet have Kyon but believes she can obtain him, then the game's still afoot and there's no reason to erase the world.
This is why the author is stuck. He's boring the fans by having written nine books and having taken none of the romances anywhere beyond the superficially flirtatious. (No dates, no kisses, nothing. Well, a few kisses here or there [Season 1's last ep, also Adult Mikuru kissing Kyon on the cheek several times], but still no super-sexy kisses or anything. ;p) When fans read nine books that repeat the same romantic developments (or lack thereof) over and over again, they grow frustrated. It's just like the problem they have with the Endless Eight anime.
Think about it! Endless Eight was told the "correct" way but the correct way also pissed off 99% of the fans. Similarly, the right way to write these books, given the premise put forward in the very first book, is to follow Question #6 that I wrote above. But once the readers become aware that Question #6 is the series' angle, their brains equate it to Question #5: they say, "Look, fuck the girl: I don't care if she doesn't ever catch on or if she does. We've caught on that you're never going to let any of the girls catch Kyon, and so we're bored."It's all very ironic and all very philosophically amazing.
The author has penned a popular series of books about a god whose boredom must be averted lest she destroy the world, and now that very same fictional world is confronted with real-life destruction at the hands of real-life bored fans. How does the author preserve the canon (i.e. keep Haruhi from getting bored) while at the same time satisfying human beings' desire to achieve closure?It may be an impossible task. But I'm looking forward to what the author can come up with.
Wow, with all that said I wonder what would happen if the series took a radical turn. I'm not sure what kind of turn the anime would have to make to debunk your entire theory, but wouldn't that be interesting? lol
Personally, I guess I am one of those "whiny fans" who would like to see Kyon end up with someone eventually. Haruhi makes the most sense, despite the whole her being god and having her way would possibly bore her resulting in the end of the world thing. That's why I sort of hope your theory isn't 100% accurate, because I would like to see an ending to the series.
Of course it would be interesting to see the series "end" without having anything resolved. And I think I would reluctantly accept the ending (Hell, I have learned to accept the Berserk anime ending). It still isn't preferable - to me anyways.
In any event, Haruhi is still an amazing series that the Author has penned, despite my whole being flustered with Endless Eight. I'm anxious to see this so called DoHS arc thats supposed to air in a couple months(hopefully) and of course anxious to see how the rest of the series turns out.
I think I'm repeating too much stuff now, so I'll shut up. Never really thought I'd have in depth conversations about Anime or Games on a board I go to for fap material and the discussion of said material.
Personally, I guess I am one of those "whiny fans" who would like to see Kyon end up with someone eventually. Haruhi makes the most sense, despite the whole her being god and having her way would possibly bore her resulting in the end of the world thing. That's why I sort of hope your theory isn't 100% accurate, because I would like to see an ending to the series.
Of course it would be interesting to see the series "end" without having anything resolved. And I think I would reluctantly accept the ending (Hell, I have learned to accept the Berserk anime ending). It still isn't preferable - to me anyways.
In any event, Haruhi is still an amazing series that the Author has penned, despite my whole being flustered with Endless Eight. I'm anxious to see this so called DoHS arc thats supposed to air in a couple months(hopefully) and of course anxious to see how the rest of the series turns out.
I think I'm repeating too much stuff now, so I'll shut up. Never really thought I'd have in depth conversations about Anime or Games on a board I go to for fap material and the discussion of said material.
Disappearance is highly anticipated because it feels like the spiritual sequel to the events in Book 1. The first book has a lot of canon to it. There isn't much in the way of sidequests. Every chapter matters. And you have to read the chapters in order. The first book corresponds to the "main story" of the original anime, specifically the six (original broadcast order) episodes 02, 03, 05, 10, 13, and 14.
If you would say that any of these episodes was your favorite from Season 1 ...
Or if you would say that the collective story told by these six episodes was your favorite story out of all of the stories presented in Season 1 ...
Then I would say that you have every reason to be excited about Disappearance.
But if your favorite stories have been the ones which felt more like "sidequests," the ones which were fun or silly or spooky adventures on the side while the main action took place elsewhere, ... like the baseball episode ... or the school festival episode ... or the murder mystery episodes ... if these ones were your favorites, then Disappearance should still be entertaining to you, but it won't be all that you were hoping for.
I mean ... it's really hard to say without being very spoilerish. I'll just put it this way: if we want to draw a line in the sand between fans of Haruhi, there are the fans of 02/03/05/10/13/14 and then there are the fans of 01/04/06/07/08/11/12. If we want to draw this line, we can say that there are certain fans of Haruhi who would abandon the series if all the future episodes were like [the group of episodes they didn't prefer]. I would drop the show if it was nothing but ENOZ and Fumoffu Crickets and baseball tourneys. Someone else would drop the show if it was constant drama and had no Tsuruya in a maid outfit nor any Mikuru fainting after witnessing a mock murder. Suffice to say, one of us is going to be sorely disappointed by Disappearance and the other is going to be ecstatic.
I'm going to be ecstatic.
As for what you'll be, Ben? I have no clue. I really do think you'll like it. But you've mentioned before that we like different things about the show, and (without spoiling things for you) I don't think Disappearance will have as much to offer you as it does me.
[hide]I am DEAD SERIOUS when I say, "DO NOT LOAD THIS FILE UNLESS YOU WANT THE MAJOR SPOILER." I'm posting it for those people who can't stand it when people talk in riddles. This is the specific scene I'm saying the fans can't wait for. Or at least, I can't wait for. Going to be fucking awesome. Again: major, major spoiler (not even joking), so please don't click it if you haven't been spoilered yet. It's only meant to be clicked by people who already know what happens in Book 4.
[hide]Consider who adorns Book 4's cover ...
Granted, the books are like the anime and they present the story out of order time and time again. But anyone who's seen either Suzumiya Haruhi-chan or Churuya should know that something else is going on here ...
And would you look at that! The right page and the left page that readers discover the moment they crack open the book and look at the pretty color pictures in the very front.
She's baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack ... O_O;
Ben, if you are reading this ... shame on you for your lack of self-control , but aren't you excited that one of your favorites is coming back in such a grandiose -- and frightening as fuck -- fashion? God disappears and the very same day who should show up but the psycho robot alien who tried to take Kyon's life once before.[/hide][/hide]
If you would say that any of these episodes was your favorite from Season 1 ...
Or if you would say that the collective story told by these six episodes was your favorite story out of all of the stories presented in Season 1 ...
Then I would say that you have every reason to be excited about Disappearance.
But if your favorite stories have been the ones which felt more like "sidequests," the ones which were fun or silly or spooky adventures on the side while the main action took place elsewhere, ... like the baseball episode ... or the school festival episode ... or the murder mystery episodes ... if these ones were your favorites, then Disappearance should still be entertaining to you, but it won't be all that you were hoping for.
I mean ... it's really hard to say without being very spoilerish. I'll just put it this way: if we want to draw a line in the sand between fans of Haruhi, there are the fans of 02/03/05/10/13/14 and then there are the fans of 01/04/06/07/08/11/12. If we want to draw this line, we can say that there are certain fans of Haruhi who would abandon the series if all the future episodes were like [the group of episodes they didn't prefer]. I would drop the show if it was nothing but ENOZ and Fumoffu Crickets and baseball tourneys. Someone else would drop the show if it was constant drama and had no Tsuruya in a maid outfit nor any Mikuru fainting after witnessing a mock murder. Suffice to say, one of us is going to be sorely disappointed by Disappearance and the other is going to be ecstatic.
I'm going to be ecstatic.
As for what you'll be, Ben? I have no clue. I really do think you'll like it. But you've mentioned before that we like different things about the show, and (without spoiling things for you) I don't think Disappearance will have as much to offer you as it does me.
[hide]I am DEAD SERIOUS when I say, "DO NOT LOAD THIS FILE UNLESS YOU WANT THE MAJOR SPOILER." I'm posting it for those people who can't stand it when people talk in riddles. This is the specific scene I'm saying the fans can't wait for. Or at least, I can't wait for.
Going to be fucking awesome. Again: major, major spoiler (not even joking), so please don't click it if you haven't been spoilered yet. It's only meant to be clicked by people who already know what happens in Book 4.[hide]Consider who adorns Book 4's cover ...
Granted, the books are like the anime and they present the story out of order time and time again. But anyone who's seen either Suzumiya Haruhi-chan or Churuya should know that something else is going on here ...
And would you look at that! The right page and the left page that readers discover the moment they crack open the book and look at the pretty color pictures in the very front.
She's baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack ...
O_O;Ben, if you are reading this ... shame on you for your lack of self-control
, but aren't you excited that one of your favorites is coming back in such a grandiose -- and frightening as fuck -- fashion? God disappears and the very same day who should show up but the psycho robot alien who tried to take Kyon's life once before.[/hide][/hide]