I support freedom . . .

[rubiks6]

This thread is in response to the suggestions in this thread.

Freedom can be a tough thing, but losing freedom sucks. This board wouldn't be the the great place it is today if these kind of limits were in place.

_____ . :attention: . _____

I absolutely cannot support this idea of (quote) a "contributors" group and disable everyone else's ability to post stuff (/quote).

 

[elgringo14]

This or twenty times the same uploads over and over. Since the last 24 h there were around 17*25 threads in the JAV downloads section that were created or updated (including the numerous deleted ones). Sounds a lot to moderate on a daily basis.

If there is any restriction, the degree of restriction could depend on the area (JAV being the most restricted).

Personally I would like a restriction on the number of created threads per day, but that's probably not easy to put in place.

Your own freedom stops where the freedom of others starts...

 

[lowleg26]

Remember, though, the idea put forth in that thread was really only the gist of the idea. Its probably not quite as restrictive as you/I/we may think.

The way I'm interpreting the idea is: would be posters for the torrent/direct download sections would have to fill out a fairly easy and straightforward form that proves that they understand the rules of the site. This would reduce the number of duplicate posts and incorrectly formatted posts that site staff would have to deal with.

Its less about creating a new user class than it is about reducing the strain on staff. Remember, this isn't a business. Mods/Super Mods volunteer their time here, and this is a very large site for just a handful of people to moderate. If a relativity simple change in site rules can help alleviate staff frustration, I say do it.

Also, I'm well aware that some of our best posters aren't masters of the English language. I'm sure that staff would be happy to work with already established posters who have already demonstrated knowledge of site rules to make sure that they didn't get shut out because they didn't fill out an English form properly.

I don't think the change would be quite as drastic as it may seem, especially since it would probably only affect two types of posts (torrent and DD). I don't think people would be prevented from pic posting or posting in general.

I'm curious as to what the primary concerns you have are? uzzled:
What specifically about the idea troubles you? Lets at least get a dialogue going about it.

 

[Ceewan]

Well torrent posters are not a very big problem here, occasionally mistakes are made. I do not think it has become a big deal, even in the JAV section.

The Direct Download sections are another matter entirely. For those not in the know we are currently trying to correct serious abuse of this forum by some of our members, especially new accounts. If this behavior does not stop I have no doubt it will have serious negative consequences that may possibly affect all members. Freedoms that are constantly abused are freedoms likely to be lost. I am sure that the staff will implement whatever changes necessary to ensure the survival of this forum. And yes, that is how serious I believe the current problem to be.

 

[rubiks6]

Freedoms can be difficult.

Someone's freedom to disagree with us can be hard. Someone's freedom to be a jackass can be really tough to tolerate. But the kind of restriction that was suggested would turn this place into another Kawaii15. At least imho.

Please note - The mods here at Akiba have my full support and respect and encouragement (and my sympathy). Even you, Eg (teasing).

_____^^ Written before lowleg's response ^^ oh, and before Ceewan's _____

LL - Maybe these problems are occurring in areas that I do not frequent (that is, anything adult). I don't see these issues arising (much) in JIclub.

It just seems to me that any regulating of who can post material (other than within the already posted rules) would be harmful. I know this sometimes allows idiots to enter the room, and that sometimes messes have to be cleaned up, but that is the cost of our freedom here at Akiba. Freedom is never free.

C - wow. I did not realise how bad the problems had become. Things generally go quite well in JIclub. I hope that any strong actions taken will be limited to only those areas where things are that bad.

Last note - Implementing any restrictions may be more work than the mods are currently faced with.
________________

(oh and btw - this is a business. But I do not wish to elaborate on that, and risk getting off topic.)

 

[lowleg26]

rubiks6, I think its clear from both of our posts that neither of us is 100% clear on just how widespread an effect this theoretical shift in site policy would be. Nor, exactly, what the new policy would be.

At this point, this is less a discussion on possible site policy than it is a discussion about a comment made by a non-staff member.

Can we at least agree that until a gold hued member enters the thread and weighs in on the idea, there's zero cause for concern?

You've raised the question, now we can wait and see if there is any need for further discussion.

As someone who's participated in a couple of "policy" debates that ultimately went nowhere, I've really got no interest in getting personally involved in another one unless its one that may yield results. Unless chompy or rollyco or a mysterious golden stranger actually states that this is up for discussion. There's no reason to believe that any change is being considered at all.

Just a thought.

 

[Rollyco]

In my opinion, firewalling user content creation can be problematic, and requires some careful planning beforehand. What the JAV direct download sections really need are some new features. For example

1. Ability to assign multiple prefixes to a single thread/post
2. A new thread/post field called "DVD code(s)", filled in by the user on thread creation/edition
3. Automatic parsing of post text to extract and assign thread prefixes (HF, MU, RS, SM, etc.)

With that in place, the system can automatically deny almost all future duplicate posts, and the signal/noise ratio in the JAV DDL sections would improve rather quickly.

Not to mention searching for DDL content would become a much more agreeable experience.

Now then... any PHP coders? andalaugh:

 

[rubiks6]

. . . until a gold hued member enters the thread . . .

Probably the wisest thing I've heard all evening.

In my opinion, firewalling user content creation can be problematic, and requires some careful planning beforehand.

Exactly.

____ edit ____

oh - Rollyco - I thought Mr. C was the only gold colored. Never-the-less, everything I said stands.

 

[guy]

# Ability to assign multiple prefixes to a single thread/post
# A new thread/post field called "DVD code(s)", filled in by the user on thread creation/edition
# Automatic parsing of post text to extract and assign thread prefixes (HF, MU, RS, SM, etc.)

Good initiatives, but sadly it's a bunch of work that doesn't accomplish quite as much as you'd hope.

Not sure what types of multiple prefixes you might need for a thread. But my guess is if you really need to prefix every thread, you might be better off creating more subforums (at least that way it's easier to "filter" for specific prefixes). But of course whether anyone will bother posting to the right subforum is another problem.

DVD codes would be great, but they are woefully inconsistent. Hyphenation is one problem; another is that some producers change their DVD codes depending on whether it's a sale DVD, rental DVD, online download, or Blu-ray edition, even though they all contain the same content. What would be nice is if we could standardize how meta-data is added to posts. For instance, DVD codes should be included in the post. But series names, producer, actress would be better off in the tags section.

As for identifying filehosts, this is an unsolvable problem I have seen from JAVforum. For posters who use multiple filehosts and post multiple shares per thread, there is no guarantee that every filehost listed in the thread title prefix is available for each file. For example:
[HF / RS] New releases for today
ー Post #1 (video A) [RS links]
ー Post #2 (video B) [HF links]
A user looking for a HF mirror for video A will still be directed to that thread even though it doesn't contain the files s/he is looking for.



One other problem: DVD covers! Some upload them to the forum, some hotlink them, some use image hosts. As a result, we get a lot of "No hotlinking" or "image deleted" images.

If we can get the images hosted on the AO server, I think it would actually be nice to integrate expiry of links with expiry of images. For example, use a script like Greasemonkey Links Checker to check if filehost links are still active or already expired. If active, then show the image as normal, but if expired, hide the image.

 

[Rollyco]

Not sure what types of multiple prefixes you might need for a thread

Just filehosting type(s) (HF, RS, MU, etc.) It would be taken out of the hands of the user.

DVD codes [are] woefully inconsistent

It's not at all that bad. Can easily be normalized into 'ABC012'.

the tags section

Asking the DDL uploaders to use the tags system in a disciplined fashion is an exercise in futility.

A user looking for a HF mirror for video A will still be directed to that thread even though it doesn't contain the files s/he is looking for.

That's true, what I'm envisioning would probably require a '1 thread per release' rule and/or somehow extending the prefix/DVD code system to apply to posts, not just threads.

 

[rubiks6]

One other problem: DVD covers! Some upload them to the forum, some hotlink them, some use image hosts

Yes, yes!. Please ban image hosts. They suck. And always die. To the forum only! Why not ? Which old thread pointing to an image host hasn't died ???

This is not so hard to implement.

Please, find one image in any one of my posts that I have not uploaded to AO. If the image was important to me, I downloaded it to my machine, and then uploaded it to AO. If I could not dl it to my machine, I disregarded it and moved on with my life. I have an album called 'pics referenced in my posts'.

 

[lowleg26]

Please ban image hosts

No argument here. Not a fan of image hosts at all.

I suppose a less drastic measure would be selecting a few "approved" image hosts that weren't rife with problems and listing them in the rules section. But banning them altogether is a bit more appealing.

 

[Rollyco]

I don't that's a good idea right now. vBulletin has a "Prevent Keywords" list, and any word will trigger a post to be sent to the moderation queue. The problem is that it's an all-or-nothing affair: the user sees a generic "your post has been sent to the moderation queue" message and has no idea what keyword triggered the problem. So it would be a huge additional burden on the moderators.

 

[chippy]

Great discussion, pertinent topic, and thoughtful posts by all! This is a BIG reason I feel all comfy and snuggly here at AO. I would like to add my own small tangent here.

As for the rules of this site, we would all ostensibly agree that AO is an international affair, attracting users from all corners--even those where English comprehension and expression is in short supply. It would be a shame to erect barriers to the contributions of members from those places.

The essence of the rules is not their wording in English, but rather the purpose of their existence. To wit: a post with no text other than a description (which is usually garnered by the poster from the source of his/her post, and thus most often in English anyway) and a picture ("1000 words" in the language we all understand) is perfectly acceptable here.

Perfectly acceptable, that is, as long as it follows the rules. Thus, if the rules were made crystal clear (or as close as possible, maybe VVS2 on the diamond clarity scale) to as many members from as many regions as possible, we may indeed see a geometric decrease in infractions, and anything that can reduce the load on the Mods (fully deserving of capitalization) would be a Good Thing.

What about a thread or subgroup or what-have-you dedicated to (accurately) translating the rules list? I'm sure we could make some progress at least, somewhat in the spirit of the effort that goes into translating Linux distro releases into multiple languages.

My suggestion: an additional forum in the Skybox (how about "Site Rules Translation Project") dedicated to translation of the rules, with one thread per language. Native speakers of each language who also have a decent command of English can bandy about versions of a translation until they come upon a concensus, which is then submitted to Chompy (since he maintains the English list) for inclusion as a footnote.

Given the alternative of a highbar (per the suggestion of an English-only fill-out form) to straddle, my bet is that the non-native-speaker members would actively sort the situation out, to the benefit of themselves and the rest of us alike.

And hey, once we've got a bunch of languages covered, abusers would have little excuse: blatant abuse and spamming could be dealt with as harshly as one might want with relative impunity...WITHOUT effectively becoming another kawaii15.

 

[RyuKaze]

I am all for supporting the freedoms we all enjoy here at AO, but as Samuel Hendel put it:

"The fact, in short, is that freedom, to be meaningful in an organized society must consist of an amalgam of hierarchy of freedoms and restraints."

It has already been bought up about users who do not have a command of the English language; but they are as much of this community as anyone of us who can fluently construct a post in our native tongue. I am with chippy somewhat with a translation of the rules topic, but the original point made in the linked post was about the mis-categorisation of content - Something which transcends the language barrier and encroaches on personal interpretation (something I'm afraid you can't standardise.)

I have been a member of several forums who had a 'Contributor' group, although it was a title given AFTER a user has continually contributed to the website and was used to acknowledge their efforts, rather than enable them to post in the first place. It did offer some access to hidden 'Contributor-only' forum threads, which normally had the best content.erfectplan:

The dynamic here at AO wouldn't immediately lend itself to that sort of organisation, but I do appreciate the strife which the Mods and Admins go through with filtering and removing the vast amounts of duplicates, junk and otherwise useless posts. It's a hard job, and as lowleg26 so rightfully pointed out, the staff here volunteer their time; so anything to make their life easier is surely a good thing - But only if it is implemented properly.

Well, that's my low-down on the situation, but I haven't frequented these boards for as long as some of the other users, so I can't say I have the entire picture.